IFR flight to a VFR-only airport under 135

spasekace

spasekace

WHOligan
Hey guys, question for you 135 rule gurus out there. I have a friend that flies for a 135 operator with regular scheduled runs. Recently, the FAA changed the approaches into an airport he regularly flies into making the approaches NA at night. That's when he normally flies into said airport but usually the weather is good enough for a visual approach.

So he wants to know 1) Can he legally file IFR to that airport? 2) If he can, what are alternate minimums and departure (to that airport) minimums? He can go VFR but the company he works for like IFR flight plans since it's easier to track.

Me thinks that he can file IFR to a VFR only airport assuming that weather at his eta is better than basic VFR and that he just needs to file an alternate with suitable approaches. But what the hell do I know. What do you think?
Thanks!
 
spasekace said:
Hey guys, question for you 135 rule gurus out there. I have a friend that flies for a 135 operator with regular scheduled runs. Recently, the FAA changed the approaches into an airport he regularly flies into making the approaches NA at night. That's when he normally flies into said airport but usually the weather is good enough for a visual approach.

So he wants to know 1) Can he legally file IFR to that airport? 2) If he can, what are alternate minimums and departure (to that airport) minimums? He can go VFR but the company he works for like IFR flight plans since it's easier to track.

Me thinks that he can file IFR to a VFR only airport assuming that weather at his eta is better than basic VFR and that he just needs to file an alternate with suitable approaches. But what the hell do I know. What do you think?
Thanks!
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Not that I know much of anything, and this is maybe a question someone could answer for me too, but wouldn't the N/A for the approaches at night give the Airport Non-Std. Alternate Mins? Maybe I don't have a great grasp on how all of that works (just got my IR ticket and I've heard it can take you an entire life time to really figure out all of the rules, etc...)
 
The first and most important place I would recommend he reference is his Op-Specs (probably A057). From my rusty recollection, as long as he can make a visual approach from the MEA/MVA I dont see a problem..however he will need to file an alternate with an approach and weather reporting (that are acceptable to the requirements in his op-specs). We had a provision allowing us to deviate from 135.225 and go in to VFR fields, even with no weather reporting....PIC must look at weather forecasts and make reasonable assumption blah blah blah....and file to a known fix before commencing VFR.

As far as departing...file an alternate and make sure he meets the prescribed take off minimums for departure airport (shouldnt be a problem if he arrived VFR ok)
 
The correct answer will depend on what is approved in his company's Ops Specs and GOM. In the 135 company that I most recently worked for. We could not file IFR to an airport that did not have weather reporting, an approved (and operating) instrument approach procedure, and forecasted minimums at or above the minimums for the approach. If we could not meet these requirements, but we were fairly certain that we could make it into the airport VFR, we would file to another airport nearby that did meet the minimums and cancel when we were within 10 miles of our real destination. If the weather was just clear VFR we would simply file a VFR flight plan and go. We were required to be own a flight plan, but it did not have to be IFR.
 
waverebel said:
The first and most important place I would recommend he reference is his Op-Specs (probably A057). From my rusty recollection, as long as he can make a visual approach from the MEA/MVA I dont see a problem..however he will need to file an alternate with an approach and weather reporting (that are acceptable to the requirements in his op-specs). We had a provision allowing us to deviate from 135.225 and go in to VFR fields, even with no weather reporting....PIC must look at weather forecasts and make reasonable assumption blah blah blah....and file to a known fix before commencing VFR.

As far as departing...file an alternate and make sure he meets the prescribed take off minimums for departure airport (shouldnt be a problem if he arrived VFR ok)
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Are you with an "eligible on demand" operator?

Skydisaster seems to have a good answer. The question is the the flight locating procedure. Most must always be on an active flight plan. The solution I was given was initially filing a composite IFR/VFR, but I think it still had to have weather reporting.
 
Thanks for the input guys! I, and my friend (nooo I'm not really him, many of y'all know what I do and this ain't it) thank you all. I'm pretty sure he lurks so hopefully he'll have read all your excellent answers, if not, I guess I'll have to relay.

Flight locating isn't really the question I think since his Co. requires an IFR flight plan for that purpose. I agree, I think he needs to check his ops specs and that there isn't anything in the regs that specifically prohibits this as long as there's approved WX at the destination airport.

Why cancel IFR and land VFR? Can't he just get the visual approach?

Thanks again, y'all rock.
 
skydisaster said:
The correct answer will depend on what is approved in his company's Ops Specs and GOM. In the 135 company that I most recently worked for. We could not file IFR to an airport that did not have weather reporting, an approved (and operating) instrument approach procedure, and forecasted minimums at or above the minimums for the approach. If we could not meet these requirements, but we were fairly certain that we could make it into the airport VFR, we would file to another airport nearby that did meet the minimums and cancel when we were within 10 miles of our real destination. If the weather was just clear VFR we would simply file a VFR flight plan and go. We were required to be own a flight plan, but it did not have to be IFR.
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Thats how we do it at our company. Our op-specs only allow us to launch if there is an approved weather station at our destination.
 
spasekace said:
Flight locating isn't really the question I think since his Co. requires an IFR flight plan for that purpose. I agree, I think he needs to check his ops specs and that there isn't anything in the regs that specifically prohibits this as long as there's approved WX at the destination airport.

Why cancel IFR and land VFR? Can't he just get the visual approach?
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That's just it. You CAN'T cancel IFR in the air, or for that matter, launch VFR and pick up the clearance airborne (per our opspecs). That VFR time is not in compliance with the flight locating program if there is not an active flight plan.

Tell me more about the 10 miles rule. Is in in your GOM or the OPSPECS? Which page? I want it!! :beer:
 
The 10 mile rule was in our GOM. It was there to allow us to cancel IFR and proceed to an uncontrolled airport visually once we had the airport in site. It improved safety in single pilot ops by not requiring us to monitor two frequencies at once. If we needed more than 10 miles VFR, then we had to open a VFR flight plan.

deadstick said:
That's just it. You CAN'T cancel IFR in the air, or for that matter, launch VFR and pick up the clearance airborne (per our opspecs). That VFR time is not in compliance with the flight locating program if there is not an active flight plan.

Tell me more about the 10 miles rule. Is in in your GOM or the OPSPECS? Which page? I want it!! :beer:
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At my company we are required to get a visual to an airport that does not have an operating weather reporting source, if the TAF/Area Forecast list mins that will be below a MVA/MEA, then I would have to file an alternate. I am allowed, through OpSpecs, to cancel IFR prior to reaching any distance from the airport, in fact I can actually file a VFR flight plan and fly it VFR. To each their own OpSpecs.
 
spasekace said:
It seems to me that the popular consensus is that it depends on each operators' ops specs.

Thanks again guys.
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Of course you could always file to a fix near said airport, and considering that there's no approach anyway, you could cancel if you had the vis and fly on in as desired.
 
An easy way to look at it is that it actually DOES have an "instrument approach", but the MDA is the local MEA or MVA as appropriate, and the mins are VFR mins for the approach. Alternate requirements would be based on that, and, the matter of weather reporting. This means that you will, almost for sure, need to file an alternate in this scenario.
 
I am flying 121 not 135 but I am only allowed to depart and land VFR if the Tower is closed at the airport, take Ithica NY for example, our first flight out is at 6am, the Tower opens at 630 so we pick up IFR in the air as long as the weather permits. Our last flight lands at 11pm, tower closes at 930 so same rules apply, if a visual can be made we can cancel and land VFR other wise we shoot an approach and close it out on the ground. Pretty standard
 
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