I should know this.. 172S

Timbuff10

Timbuff10

Well-Known Member
I am making a systems sheet/study guide for students and am trying to find in the Cessna 172S POH where the motor is that powers the flaps. I can't find any mention on it.

I know in the older 172s (M, N, models) it is in the right wing. I imagine this is still the location in the newer ones?
 
Thanks, I guess that is something that is too obvious to put in the book. Kinda like knowing that the engine is mounted on the front of the plane.

Oh well, still not afraid to ask the dumb question.
 
Timbuff10 said:
Thanks, I guess that is something that is too obvious to put in the book. Kinda like knowing that the engine is mounted on the front of the plane.

Oh well, still not afraid to ask the dumb question.
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It is actually in the book, just not technically stated or spelled out. If you take a look at the wing flaps diagram in the front of the systems section, you can see that it's shown on the right side.
 
Yeah, I saw that it looked like something in that diagram on 7-13 but couldn't tell if that was actually what it was. Looking back at it, it makes sense now. I am just surprised that no where in the book does it actually say that the electric motor that operates the flaps is in the right wing. I suppose if one ever catches fire the lawyers will mention it in the future POHs.

Anyone ever been asked about where this motor is on an oral?
 
Just curious; why should it matter to a pilot to know where that motor is located?
 
If you are a student, its because the examiner might ask about it on an oral...

If you are a CFI, its because the student might ask where the motor is that moves the flaps.

Other than that, and maybe curiosity, there isn't really a reason I guess.
 
SteveC said:
Just curious; why should it matter to a pilot to know where that motor is located?
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It's always been weird to me that somebody knows where the flap motor is!

If an examiner asked me where the flap motor was, I'd answer that I didn't know, and that it probably isn't that important since I can't give it a visual inspection and I can't fix it if it's broken!
 
You have to know! There's no limit to how much you CAN know about flying. It's like asking "why do I need to know how many cylinders an engine has?" or "why do I need to know the diameter of the propeller?"

Sure, we teach our students mostly because the examiner might ask, but as a pilot, we must know every damn detail about everything. I'm pretty sure when you get type rated in an jet you dont just learn where everything is, instead, you learn every small detail about it... hydraulics, electrical, pneumatic systems, etc..... I doubt all those type rated pilots are mechanics, but they are indeed pilots.... meaning, they have to know the specifics...

However, whether they remember all of it or not... thats another story!
 
I disagree. It's real easy to get caught up in details and never see the big picture. Details are cool, but if I can't affect it in flight then how can knowing anything about it possibly help me? Like where the flap motor is. I never even thought about it to tell you the truth. Is there anything I can do to it? No? Sweet, I'll just worry about when it breaks, and then do a no flap landing.
 
John Herreshoff said:
I disagree. It's real easy to get caught up in details and never see the big picture. Details are cool, but if I can't affect it in flight then how can knowing anything about it possibly help me? Like where the flap motor is. I never even thought about it to tell you the truth. Is there anything I can do to it? No? Sweet, I'll just worry about when it breaks, and then do a no flap landing.
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:yeahthat:

Exactly. There is "Need to Know", "Nice to Know", and then "Why would I care?".
 
GreenDayPilot said:
... but as a pilot, we must know every damn detail about everything. I'm pretty sure when you get type rated in an jet you dont just learn where everything is, instead, you learn every small detail about it... hydraulics, electrical, pneumatic systems, etc..... I doubt all those type rated pilots are mechanics, but they are indeed pilots.... meaning, they have to know the specifics...
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What is the diameter of the spark plug wires on the plane you flew last?

What was the gap on the speak plugs?

What is the specific gravity of the Avgas you used?

How many cords were in the nosewheel tire?


You'd be surprised how little systems knowledge is required for many type ratings. Pilots fly airplanes - - they don't engineer or build them. If I can't see it, if I can't touch it, if I can't affect it when it's broken, there's not much reason for me to know about it. I have found that the more complex the airplane, the lower the level of detailed knowledge is required. This idea that one should learn every detail because the examiner might ask is pure nonsense. Learning it because a student might ask is nonsensical, as well. Learning it because it interests you is fine.

If an examiner might ask, I'd say, "I don't know. I don't inspect it before or after flight, and I know of no procedure that requires I touch it - - I just know that when I actuate this switch, it causes the flaps to go up or down, and that it's controlled by this type of electricity from this source and it's protected by this circuit breaker, etc., etc., etc."

If a student might ask, I'd say, "I don't know. It's not important to know WHERE it is, it's important to know how it works, and what to do it if stops working. If you're really set on knowing where it is, we'll take some time later to go ask a mechanic. HE'S the one that needs to know WHERE it is."




.
 
wow, never mind then guys, I will tell them that the magic fairy makes the flaps move.

I suppose that does open up a whole can of worms if you start going that route. I just figured it would be nice to know where the motor is located is all since it is different from pipers and so on. I suppose that is probably a question that no DE should be asking in a real oral, but instead using that knowledge to teach during the oral perhaps?
 
It's just a diffferent approach to training, Tim. Some guys are into details, some guys are into big picture. To me, it sounds like you think details are important. Me? I think the big picture is WAY more important. Nothing wrong with either approach, just a different way of doing things.
 
Oh yeah, I totally agree... I just hate to be the CFI that doesn't know and has to spend 10 minutes or more looking stuff up and then having to get back to the student about it later. They ask the oddest questions sometimes.

Took me for ever to figure out how to turn on that light that is on the underside of the wing. Not a big deal but I felt kind of dumb about it when the student asked.

Uhhhhhh, that light, that isn't that important right now, lets talk about 91.205 some more, yeah...
 
Timbuff10 said:
... I just hate to be the CFI that doesn't know and has to spend 10 minutes or more looking stuff up and then having to get back to the student about it later.
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Try to be the CFI that knows the difference between important stuff and trivia.



There is a phenomena throughout the industry that drives us to know more and more about a subject because we want to know more than the next guy. Examiner "X" wants to know one more thing about the airplane than Student "A" so he can ask a question and hear, "I don't know." Knowing how to respond to a question to which one doesn't know the answer is perhaps the more important aspect of this question, but what happens is Student "A" reports this question to Instructor "Y" who researches and teaches the answer to Student "B". When Examiner "X" asks the question of Student "B", he gets the correct answer, so, in order to get the unanswered question, or in order to feed his ego by being able to stump Student "B" and prove he knows more, he keeps asking until he finds another unanswered question. Student "B" reports this one to Instructor "Y" who prepares Student "C" and the whole process continues ad nauseum, and I do mean nauseum.

Somebody has to stop the insanity.

I'm not saying it's wrong to learn as much as you want about the airplane. If you want to know the number of rivets used to assemble the left wing, that's fine. What's more important to me, though, is knowing which way the aileron on that left wing should move when you twist the yoke in a counter-clockwise direction. The thickness of the cable connecting the two is irrelevant, even if it does interest you. There's no need to overload a student with information that is irrelevant.

Wanna do your student a favor? Teach him to say, "I don't know."




.
 
Timbuff10 said:
Took me for ever to figure out how to turn on that light that is on the underside of the wing. Not a big deal but I felt kind of dumb about it when the student asked.
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Care to tell us? :)
 
averyrm said:
Turn on the rear passenger lights with the button on the overhead pannel.
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Ding ding ding... Yeah, it was the dome light thing in the back seat... Who would have thought huh? I mean once you are in there and can hit that button who cares what is going on outside? I guess the idea is you have a light so you can see all the bags/gold bars that you are loading into your mighty 172.
 
I see both sides

as a non CFI but someone who will be one someday I cansee both arguments. The truth is, my CFI didn't know everything. He gave me the "it doesn't really matter" route if I asked something he didn't know. As a former instructor myself, I would have been interested to know why I wanted to know where it was located.

As someone who recently bought an ancient C150, I can tell you that there are a ton of things I have learned about flying from sticking my nose in places it doesn't belong on that airplane. I had my head under the panel for an hour the other day re doing the cable ties that held the wiring up in place. In that time, i learned how the vacume system actually routes everything, how the transponder static pressure, how the yoke is actually connected to the ailerons and elevator and now I know why there seems to be a spongy feel at the extreme forward limit of aileron travel. I figured out that whoever did the wiring on my airplane is not a very good electrician. With the cowling off the other day I got one hell of an education in how my little 100HP engine works, how the carb heat actually works, what the mixture physically controls and how the magentos are actually wired.

How does all that help? I don't know. I sure have a better understanding now of what applying carb heat does to the mixture, hwo it effects performance and the like. Yes I "knew" all of that stuff from studying for my checkride but I didn't really have an understanding until now.

Would I make your students memorize where the flap motor is? No but I think it is a good idea that an instructor know enough about the aircraft and the location of its systems that when a student asks what a specific antenna is for or where an actuator or motor is, you could tell them. Obviously you don't need to be an A&P but knowing that the little set of holes next to the strut is there for jacking the airplane or the opening on the bottom of the wing is there so a mechanic can get a wrench and a hand inside the wing... You get my point. Sure it is more than your student needs to know fo r acheckride. It is more than they may ever need to know. However, a person with questions running around in there head would be better off to just hear...its in the right hand wing and is inaccessible than a lecture on why they don't need to know that or worse..."motor? what motor??? :) IN school in the navy, the instructors routinely use the phrase that something is beyond the scope of the lecture but that they will discuss it individually after class. We at a part 61 school. The student controls the class time. They are paying you to teach them. If they want to spend 3 minutes on the flap motor, so be it.
 
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