Just wondering what the possibilities to being an ATC are, I know there is schooling, internships, FAA minimums and requirements,etc. I also know there are several (13?) schools that have some sort of department related to air traffic control. Does anybody have any experience with these? Just wondering what all is involved prior to being hired and recieving compensation for it. Any information is appreciated as always.
How to be an ATC?
- Thread starter dmb911
- Start date
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
To be hired by the FAA now you must attend a CTI program. CTI stands for Controller Training Initiative. You are correct that there are 13 such schools across the nation. Three that come to mind are Beaver County Communitity College, University of North Dakota, and Embry-Riddle in Daytona Beach, FL. I attended ERAU Daytona and majored in aeronautical science but minored in ATC. I really enjoyed the experience, and was ready to pursue a career in ATC had I not gotten the flying job (my true love) that I currently have.
Here is a map with links to the 13 schools:
http://www.faa.gov/careers/employment/AF-CTI-MAP.htm
Here is a map with links to the 13 schools:
http://www.faa.gov/careers/employment/AF-CTI-MAP.htm
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
www.atccti.com
Know what sort of work environment you will be working under. Just like the airlines, the FAA isn't in the business of increasing safety. They are in business to lower the bottom line in hopes of making money. Kiss the 6 figure salary days good bye.
I'm currently a CTI student out of Miami Dade. I'm putting my controller dream job on hold until the FAA decides to pay the controller work force what it truely is worth. Until then, I'll fly for a living. If it never happens, then I'll just make my money elsewhere.
Know what sort of work environment you will be working under. Just like the airlines, the FAA isn't in the business of increasing safety. They are in business to lower the bottom line in hopes of making money. Kiss the 6 figure salary days good bye.
I'm currently a CTI student out of Miami Dade. I'm putting my controller dream job on hold until the FAA decides to pay the controller work force what it truely is worth. Until then, I'll fly for a living. If it never happens, then I'll just make my money elsewhere.
whats the expected salary after finishing CTI? I understand that one would have to get further training and such with the FAA once hired (how long does this take?) but what can you expect as a starting salary? First year FO pay? 3rd year FO pay? twice that? Getting ready to start working on my CFI and would like to spend some time researching the idea of ATC altogether. I (honestly) think it would be more challenging and entertaining than flying for a living but i don't have any experience with either. Let me know how your training at Miami-Dade has gone and what the hiring is like on that side of the industry if you have any insight on that.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
www.atccti.com and a majority of your answers can / will be answered. I'd rather not repeat the process here.
The training at MDC is at the same level as the other 12 CTI schools. The FAA writes the syallbus, and the schools have to follow it. . .majority of the schools go above and beyond it. MDC, ERAU, UND, MtSac, are a couple that go above and beyond the minimums.
The outlook through the end of the decade is great. By 2011 over 50% of the current controller workforce will retire. Unfortunately the FAA is behind the 8 ball as they havent hired enough people to man the scopes while the retired guys train the newbies. It doesn't help either that the FAA decided to instate a B-Scale pay scale for all new hires. This new pay scale is a 30% reduction from the previous generations. . . which to many of us in the CTI pipeline, find outrageous and will have great pleasure in telling the FAA no thanks when they call asking us to come and work.
The NAS will see these impacts. Unlike the professional pilot field, a majority of the younger generation ATC wannabes have a back bone and will not work for a 30% reduction in pay compared to our previous generation.
I personally will not seek an ATCS position until the non-tract that the FAA has imposed on the workforce is either reversed, or is set back to the status quo. I figure I can take my AS degree in CTI, get a BA in something else, and end up making more money through the long term as opposed to topping out at a level 9 facility (previously level 12. . . but the FAA is downgrading all facilities in another effort to save money) at 78k a year. Plus benefits, sure, you are receiving close to 100k a year. . . but your actual take home pay will be near 78-80k a year, pre taxs. Considering the present overtime work environment all ATCS are working under, sure, you can kill yourself and your family by working over time and see around 95k a year. Before this contract was impossed, a CPC at a level 12 facility could easily make over 125k a year, nearing 150-160k a year with overtime.
The training at MDC is at the same level as the other 12 CTI schools. The FAA writes the syallbus, and the schools have to follow it. . .majority of the schools go above and beyond it. MDC, ERAU, UND, MtSac, are a couple that go above and beyond the minimums.
The outlook through the end of the decade is great. By 2011 over 50% of the current controller workforce will retire. Unfortunately the FAA is behind the 8 ball as they havent hired enough people to man the scopes while the retired guys train the newbies. It doesn't help either that the FAA decided to instate a B-Scale pay scale for all new hires. This new pay scale is a 30% reduction from the previous generations. . . which to many of us in the CTI pipeline, find outrageous and will have great pleasure in telling the FAA no thanks when they call asking us to come and work.
The NAS will see these impacts. Unlike the professional pilot field, a majority of the younger generation ATC wannabes have a back bone and will not work for a 30% reduction in pay compared to our previous generation.
I personally will not seek an ATCS position until the non-tract that the FAA has imposed on the workforce is either reversed, or is set back to the status quo. I figure I can take my AS degree in CTI, get a BA in something else, and end up making more money through the long term as opposed to topping out at a level 9 facility (previously level 12. . . but the FAA is downgrading all facilities in another effort to save money) at 78k a year. Plus benefits, sure, you are receiving close to 100k a year. . . but your actual take home pay will be near 78-80k a year, pre taxs. Considering the present overtime work environment all ATCS are working under, sure, you can kill yourself and your family by working over time and see around 95k a year. Before this contract was impossed, a CPC at a level 12 facility could easily make over 125k a year, nearing 150-160k a year with overtime.
cessna2351
Well-Known Member
Couldn't have said it better myself. Do not go into the CTI program banking on this career, that would be sooooo foolish. You must have a backup! I know I do.
BTW because my color vision will keep me at centers only, and if the FAA makes all centers max out at level 9's.....well lets just say I'll have some few choice words for the FAA when they come calling with the job offer. Not to mention it will take your entire career to reach the "max" of the paybands which you refer to.
Thanks, it seems you guys have answered most of my questions, although I couldnt' find what the starting pay was to be expected, i appreciate all the other information. I want to use ATC as a back up, as I"m working on my CFI,II,MEI currently. Wouldn't mind having an associates degree in something as a back up, or in the case something medically is wrong (lose a leg, etc.) Just a random thought i had, but it does seem iffy for the job market. I called a couple of the schools, only got a hold of one, and they wanted close to 25,000$ for a 2 year degree in aviation blah blah blah. I chuckled, respected the information and asked a few more questions, then said goodbye. What does ERAU want for 2 years?
cessna2351
Well-Known Member
Starting pay mentioned in the non-tract is around 31k. Under the old contract it was upper 30s but significant raises occurred mere months into employment to the tune of 60-80k, under the non-tract you don't get the Dev 1 raise until you check out on two D-sides I believe which will take much longer.
Take it from me. I was hired right before they started implementing the new pay scale. Yeah for now anyways the average salary of 135k is gone. For the new guys anyways. Now understand for the traffic you work and what your paid it's a winning situation(in some cases). I would recommend the ATC field to any one. I am a high school grad but yet I have one of the most prestigious jobs I can think of that pays me 70K a year not bad I would say. Theres more than one way to make it into ATC. I took the Military route. Theres not only FAA theres contract towers which pay 25 an hour or theres DOD who pay on the GS scale. CTI is just one option. Don't limit your options. Most likely theres a vfr twr in you backyard that will pay you 50K+ a year for talking to a few Cessna(no offense). Do your homework first. GL
Looks like I'm not the only only one to frequent both this site as well as www.atccti.com. I'm a pilot, turned ATC'er, turned entirely new field of work. The current contract pretty much solidified my decision -- when the FAA comes callin' for me to go to OKC on 2 days notice to make $7 bucks an hour for 13 weeks, their gonna get a resounding "hell no." This agency is so mismanaged under Blakey and crew, it's just phenomenal.
I have several friends, all CTI grads like myself, that just will not do the job under this newly imposed contract - or nontract. If the FAA was reasonable with the negotiations and didn't impose such drastic cuts upon an unwilling workforce, then yes, I would still consider this job. Hell, I'd be estatic to accept it. But their imposed conditions were nothing more than a slap in the face and a kick in the, well, you get the idea.
I have several friends, all CTI grads like myself, that just will not do the job under this newly imposed contract - or nontract. If the FAA was reasonable with the negotiations and didn't impose such drastic cuts upon an unwilling workforce, then yes, I would still consider this job. Hell, I'd be estatic to accept it. But their imposed conditions were nothing more than a slap in the face and a kick in the, well, you get the idea.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Not really. Join the military, work for them, then seperate and apply to the contract guys.
The bottom line is that the contract operators require REAL experience. So CTI students will not be able to get an honest shake at getting into a contract TWR.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
True, but more money can still be made from within the FAA. Plus the military has a thing about putting blood on people's hands. Not everyone is willing to do that.
pilotnate23
Well-Known Member
The military is definitely the way to go...I'm partial to the Air Force. Free training and you get paid for it! If you're serious about it, do the enlisted route, they're the line controllers that work traffic everyday. I'm in the officer route and while I do get rated and work traffic, I'm stuck in the office most of the time working issues with Center, our satellite contract tower, and other agencies on base that support/maintain our equipment. Plus I have to help manage the airfield. However, the Air Force is cutting people and they're only planning to train about 250 3-levels (trainee controllers) a year for the foreseeable future. Hope this helps!
- LL
- LL
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Which is part of the problem.
At least in the civilian environment, no one is restricting the number of individuals they are training. Plus, you have all control over decisions that influence you. Versus the military lifestyle - waiting for months in DEP for a 1C1X1 slot, getting through tech school, being assigned a base in BFE, deploying after you get your 5 level. Ops tempo is very high, and many are not willing to blindly allow the military culture to control their professional lives anymore.
Just make sure it's for you, and be ready to wait a while. Those 250 slots will get eaten up after Oct 1st.
Another reason on the draw down is that the DoD does not want to train these guys, and then lose them. Not only lose them, but to another government agency. Plus the FAA does not like to dip into other organization's manpower to increase their own, not when thousands of CTI grads are sitting on the doorsteps.
Unfortunately, not all of us CTI grads are willing to work for 30k a year. The military guys are.
Bottom line is, be as informed as possible.
rickyrhodesii
Well-Known Member
You hit that one on the spot. Most the guys I've worked with haven't reenlisted and gotten hired within a year. Most of them with the FAA (all went to Centers) a few DoD and Contract stuff.
Look at it this way: The military takes care of their own. Yeah the pay's not the greatest, but just about everything is paid for. I make just over $25k a year. So, yeah...the FAA's $30k looks real nice to someone in my shoes! But me, I choose to stay in. So, don't worry about me taking a job with the FAA!
You are way off the mark on this one.
First, the drawdown is due to force shaping and reallocation of funds into higher demand careers. Nothing else. While it's true they are only allocating 250 new 3 levels for FY07, that does not account for cross-trainees and reassignments. Training is ongoing at the same pace it's been at for years. It can take 2 years to get fully rated at some of the busy RAPCONs, so a drawdown wouldn't necessarily be felt for some time.
Secondly, the FAA doesn't dip into the DoD's manpower. You can't even talk to the FAA coming out of the military until you're on terminal leave or have a DD214 in your hand, meaning you're a civilian. You can't even apply until that point. And do you honestly think the FAA would take a CTI grad with his CTO from Beaver Airport over an ex-military who has been working jets out of Luke RAPCON for the past 5 years? They couldn't care less where the person is coming from. They want the experience.
Third, you're nuts if you think the military guys are running towards a $30k per year job. Contract towers are paying $55-60k per year. DoD facilities stateside are paying $65-75k. DoD Contracts overseas are paying $125-160k. The FAA is on the low end these days. You have to have 3 years of experience on your CTO before a contract facility will even consider you. You don't get that with a CTI education.
The options are far broader coming out of the military. Period.
And on a lighter note, spare me the whiney "putting blood on peoples' hands" crap. Go cry about it at an ACLU meeting.
