Leilani_flt
New Member
What would definitely turn you off a place you are considering after you visit there?
How picky should you be with choosing a place to train?
- Thread starter Leilani_flt
- Start date
TGatch
Well-Known Member
First and foremost I would say the instructors. A very close second would be price. Sometimes it's worth a bit extra when the instructor will go out of their way to help you. I fortunately found the cheapest FBO and had a wonderful instructor for my PPL and IR. I had to go to a different FBO for my commercial to get the complex hours.
XLR99
Well-Known Member
Welcome to jetcareers!! It sounds like you've already been someplace and got a bad first impression.
I'd say be picky. While I don't want to give you cause for alarm, be you need to be aware that aviation, while not particularly dangerous, is not at all forgiving. When you select an instructor and FBO for training, make the decision as if your life depends on it.
Regarding the instructors and customer service: Do you feel welcome when you walk in the door? Are you greeted right away, or do you need to walk around the place while people ignore you? Ask to talk to an instructor, and consider how s/he interacts with you. Try and talk with students or renters separately, to get their impression of the place. Particularly with the economy as it is right now- I would NOT put money on account at a school. Just pay as you go.
Take a look at the airplanes. Do they sit outside 24/7/365 or is there a hangar available? Depending on where you live, hangar and snow removal will determine how often (or if) you fly in the winter.
Does it appear that the FBO takes pride in the airplanes? There's certainly no need to have a new glass-cockpit aircraft, new radios or the latest GPS, but liberal applications of duct tape and 'inop' labels over half the equipment are generally not good signs. I've seen very nice 1970 aircraft, and very crappy 2004 aircraft.
Don't make the cost be your primary determinant-in many cases you get what you pay for, and if one place is $25/hr cheaper than every other airport in the area, there's probably a reason for it. It may be better to wait longer and save up more money than to go with a bottom-feeder.
Also-if you post your location, people on the boards may be able help steer you towards or away from FBOs in your area.
I'd say be picky. While I don't want to give you cause for alarm, be you need to be aware that aviation, while not particularly dangerous, is not at all forgiving. When you select an instructor and FBO for training, make the decision as if your life depends on it.
Regarding the instructors and customer service: Do you feel welcome when you walk in the door? Are you greeted right away, or do you need to walk around the place while people ignore you? Ask to talk to an instructor, and consider how s/he interacts with you. Try and talk with students or renters separately, to get their impression of the place. Particularly with the economy as it is right now- I would NOT put money on account at a school. Just pay as you go.
Take a look at the airplanes. Do they sit outside 24/7/365 or is there a hangar available? Depending on where you live, hangar and snow removal will determine how often (or if) you fly in the winter.
Does it appear that the FBO takes pride in the airplanes? There's certainly no need to have a new glass-cockpit aircraft, new radios or the latest GPS, but liberal applications of duct tape and 'inop' labels over half the equipment are generally not good signs. I've seen very nice 1970 aircraft, and very crappy 2004 aircraft.
Don't make the cost be your primary determinant-in many cases you get what you pay for, and if one place is $25/hr cheaper than every other airport in the area, there's probably a reason for it. It may be better to wait longer and save up more money than to go with a bottom-feeder.
Also-if you post your location, people on the boards may be able help steer you towards or away from FBOs in your area.
sdfcvoh
This is my Custom Title
My first turnoff would be a place that needs either, a) a deposit to "hold" your training start date; and/or b)a place that requires you pay any certain amount at the start of training.
Anyone that doesn't have the ability to train you on a "pay per service" basis and wants money up front is interested in one thing only... your $.
Avoid places operating in that fashion!
Anyone that doesn't have the ability to train you on a "pay per service" basis and wants money up front is interested in one thing only... your $.
Avoid places operating in that fashion!
Leilani_flt
New Member
Thanks for your replies! Just had a discouraging experience at a place that sounded so promising.
They weren't able to provide driving directions over the phone (just wanted to make sure I took the right turn off the interstate in their town), showed me the simulator but wouldn't fire it up much less let me try it out, didn't show me their aircraft (I drove for hours to get there, had an appointment).
Said they would need a deposit to show my "commitment", were rude to my friend who came with me, wouldn't tell me which hotels they had special arrangements with because "it's all a part of the package and you would get an e-mail with all the info you need once you register" (i.e. put up $). Wanted to sell me a study set for several hundred that's required by their school with a VHS (!) tape, couldn't tell themselves what year the set was.
This place has been in business for decades. Still, our first impressions weren't the best. Sure, I'm going to put down money without seeing the syllabus, the planes, the sim or the accommodations.
They weren't able to provide driving directions over the phone (just wanted to make sure I took the right turn off the interstate in their town), showed me the simulator but wouldn't fire it up much less let me try it out, didn't show me their aircraft (I drove for hours to get there, had an appointment).
Said they would need a deposit to show my "commitment", were rude to my friend who came with me, wouldn't tell me which hotels they had special arrangements with because "it's all a part of the package and you would get an e-mail with all the info you need once you register" (i.e. put up $). Wanted to sell me a study set for several hundred that's required by their school with a VHS (!) tape, couldn't tell themselves what year the set was.
This place has been in business for decades. Still, our first impressions weren't the best. Sure, I'm going to put down money without seeing the syllabus, the planes, the sim or the accommodations.
sdfcvoh
This is my Custom Title
If you have a chance to find a place that is .....
Part 141. Good. VA Approved. Good.
Try to find a place that has both of those qualifications (or at least 141), and that you can meet with their chief pilot who preferably has 10thousand dual given. Be sure to meet students and CFIs.
It sounds like you are a smart person. Keep on the right track and keep being picky. You'll be happy you did in the long-run. That long drive you think you might have just thrown away could very well be the best money you've ever spent in order to keep away from a bad training environment.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
As has been stated my top turn ons / turn offs and experience would be:
Don't put money up front.
Talk to the instructors.
Look at the aircraft. A poorly maintained 2004 is worse than a great 1979.
Talk to current students.
Stay unbiased. Don't let a good salesman sway your impressions.
Multiply your (their) estimated time and cost by 3x and 2x, respectively.
Don't put money up front.
Talk to the instructors.
Look at the aircraft. A poorly maintained 2004 is worse than a great 1979.
Talk to current students.
Stay unbiased. Don't let a good salesman sway your impressions.
Multiply your (their) estimated time and cost by 3x and 2x, respectively.
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
You should also check to see if the school can usually finish your training in the time they are representing. Check with past students! Do your homework! It is important.
I have found a number of schools that quote the minimums required for the license. I have never met a student that can finish in the minimum hours quoted.
You then can be an unfortunate position of having to keep paying money out because, "you're almost there". You can end up paying 2-3 times what you expected.
There is also another problem in this "business". The faster that you finish--the less money the school makes.
A normal flight school does not have an incentive to get you finished up fast. If they can keep you around then you will continue to rent a plane and pay the instructor. Some will argue that they don't do this, but I have seen it happen. There is a conflict of interest in the training scheme.
I have found a number of schools that quote the minimums required for the license. I have never met a student that can finish in the minimum hours quoted.
You then can be an unfortunate position of having to keep paying money out because, "you're almost there". You can end up paying 2-3 times what you expected.
There is also another problem in this "business". The faster that you finish--the less money the school makes.
A normal flight school does not have an incentive to get you finished up fast. If they can keep you around then you will continue to rent a plane and pay the instructor. Some will argue that they don't do this, but I have seen it happen. There is a conflict of interest in the training scheme.
I would actually disagree with sdfcvoh. I would look for a flight school that operates as a part 61. From my experience, a part 61 flight school makes the most of your money. They are flexable in their training, and likely cheaper than most part 141 flight schools.
My old 141 flight school used to nickel and dime me out of cash for this fee and that fee. Airplane useage fees based on too much flight time in a week, membership fees just to use the F.B.O. It's all crap.
The part 61 flight school that I work for now is very reliable in comparison to those that I went to when I was a student.
But it all depends on location, price, availability, useage, and service. Look at it like buying a car, the most expensive may or may not be the best thing for you.
But I do agree with JOEFRIDAY2. He's a great student and we were glad to have him.
My old 141 flight school used to nickel and dime me out of cash for this fee and that fee. Airplane useage fees based on too much flight time in a week, membership fees just to use the F.B.O. It's all crap.
The part 61 flight school that I work for now is very reliable in comparison to those that I went to when I was a student.
But it all depends on location, price, availability, useage, and service. Look at it like buying a car, the most expensive may or may not be the best thing for you.
But I do agree with JOEFRIDAY2. He's a great student and we were glad to have him.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Run away fast.
NEVER EVER pay up front for flight training!!!! Never under any circumstances!
It's one thing to keep say 1,500 on account to cover your flying for a month or so, but coughing up the whole cost up front is a major red flag. Research "silver state helicopters" for a very sad tale of financial woe.
NickH
Uber Driver
141 vs 61 is a whole other debate.
This forum. Look online for good and bad comments from students. Many people go to visit schools without really knowing what they're looking for. Try to communicate with past students personally, and this is a great forum for doing that.
Go local. Unless you live in the arctic, a local school is going to be far more practical, and probably cheaper than trying to move. Right now there's little point in an accelerated school, so flying and working is the way to go.
Don't pay upfront! Keep a current balance by all means, but any school asking for more than a couple of thousand at any one time is the biggest no-no. The declining economy is going to cost schools, especially those relying on foreign/european students.
This forum. Look online for good and bad comments from students. Many people go to visit schools without really knowing what they're looking for. Try to communicate with past students personally, and this is a great forum for doing that.
Go local. Unless you live in the arctic, a local school is going to be far more practical, and probably cheaper than trying to move. Right now there's little point in an accelerated school, so flying and working is the way to go.
Don't pay upfront! Keep a current balance by all means, but any school asking for more than a couple of thousand at any one time is the biggest no-no. The declining economy is going to cost schools, especially those relying on foreign/european students.
Leilani_flt
New Member
Thank-you so much for all of your replies!
>Go local
I like your advice, but I'm still tempted to move to FL or CA
. I haven't been able to do a day VFR x/c locally in a over a month now due to bad weather...we've had a remarkably rainy winter so far.
>Go local
I like your advice, but I'm still tempted to move to FL or CA
. I haven't been able to do a day VFR x/c locally in a over a month now due to bad weather...we've had a remarkably rainy winter so far.
sdfcvoh
This is my Custom Title
I think, just like everything, your mileage may vary. I'm not putting down 61 at all. Quite the opposite. But, if you can find a 141 without all the fees Sheblerep listed (btw - that place sounds like a nightmare!) then I would jump on it.
Never pay up front....
Always talk to ex-students in private...
Always make sure you have a good "gut" feeling about the place...
I made the mistake of going with the flashy advertising of a place called National Pilot Academy, and got ripped off with their false advertising of a fast paced program that didn't go the way they promised.
juskl
Well-Known Member
Want to come to Az? Check us out at Chandler Air Service www.aerobatics.com. We are Part 141 and do things 141 or 61. Your training is the exact same, just our paperwork is different. We have been in biz for 28 years with the same owners. Have over 30 planes, have nice weather (except this week). Won't B.S. you at all. Generally tell it like it is (and sometimes to a fault). We care about quality training and could care less about getting you into a regional. We do all levels of training to include tailwheel and aerobatics even under Part 141. Most can't claim that. We also quote realistic prices, not FAA minimums. P.M. me if you want more info.....
Justin Kelly
Justin Kelly