How often do the airlines autoland?

Mavmb

Mavmb

Well-Known Member
So how often do the pilots land the plane in bad weather?? Does the autoland still require some sort of pilot input on the controls? Autoland, is that what it's called anyway???

Just wondering too if most of the airlines and the regionals have the Cat III ILS? Any of them have the CAT IIIc? (I've got the Jepp charts in front of me) The IIIC is the one where the ILS doesn't even have an DH or a runway visual range??? (Lots of questions today)
 
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I have no idea about what your talking about, but why'd you change screen names?

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I figured Prince and P Diddy can change their names, so could I!
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Anyway, going back to Mavmb. Admin denied my latest name change because it was "stupid"! Lol
 
Autolands were covered at some length in some earlier threads. Do a search. The short version is that down to Cat I minimums the approach and landing can be hand-flown. Most airliners require that Cat II/III approaches be autoland ... unless the aircraft is equipped with a heads-up display then the approach may be hand-flown.

I can only recall one time I was a passenger on an airliner that did an autoland, at least that I know of. It was a Cat III approach in to ATL on a Delta 767-300. The landing was firm but fine. It was better than another DL 767 landing I once witnessed in my college years ... going in to JAX late one night, we touched down so hard some of the overhead bins popped. And that was a nice VFR night ...
 
DOUG
were you in dca yesterday? mount vernon visual to rwy 1? around 530. I witnessed the most hellacious crosswind landing by a md88 yesterday. I swear i thought he was gonna run off the end of the runway, and/or break the gear. granted, the winds were 320 @ 19g27. It was pretty wild....he landed on the downwind gear, then bounced to the upwind...then both went airborne, then they landed firm and the nose came down hard....took it all hte way to taxiway juliet at the end. speedbrakes and tr's blazing. I had to chuckle....looked like on of my landings as a primary student.
 
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DOUG
were you in dca yesterday? mount vernon visual to rwy 1? around 530. I witnessed the most hellacious crosswind landing by a md88 yesterday.

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Not to get on your case, but why do people on this site assume or ask if it's Doug when there is an MD88 spotted doing something? I know he flies one, but there has to be at least another 500 pilots flying the Mad Dog for Delta.

And if this was him, do you think he want to share on a public site an awful landing? I admit when I have a bad landing, but I just wish people would stop thinking it is always him.

[rant over]
 
Nope, wasn't me!

And for the record, there are a little more than 700 mad dog drivers in ATL, another 300 or so in CVG and about 350 in DFW and about 120 aircraft -- my math might be wrong.

I get those questions all the time, no worries!
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So how often do the pilots land the plane in bad weather??

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More often than not. Autoland is hellaciously freaky and I havne't met a single person that would rather conduct one than just manually fly it.

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Does the autoland still require some sort of pilot input on the controls?

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Lots and lots of monitoring and you have to 'follow thru' the autopilot's inputs in case you've got to take over. Actually, it's a lot more challenging of a manuever for the non-flying pilot because there's an exact symphony of sorts, that has to happen in exact order.

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Autoland, is that what it's called anyway???

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Yes

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The IIIC is the one where the ILS doesn't even have an DH or a runway visual range??? (Lots of questions today)

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I think itmight be called an "alert height" or something.
 
There are currently no CAT 3Cs, but that is not due to aircraft limitations, but rather due to not having sorted out how you'd taxi after you land!

On the MD-11, as most widebodies, we are legal on CAT3B down to 300 RVR. There are no "minimums", but rather "alert height", which is essentially for autopilot issues. Below alert height, the autopilot really can't malfunction such that it will effect the landing (that's a simple way of putting it).

In any event, we have an alert height of 100' and due to the body angle and cockpit height, we do not see the runway or anything else outside until after we have landed.
 
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DOUG
were you in dca yesterday? mount vernon visual to rwy 1? around 530. I witnessed the most hellacious crosswind landing by a md88 yesterday.

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Not to get on your case, but why do people on this site assume or ask if it's Doug when there is an MD88 spotted doing something? I know he flies one, but there has to be at least another 500 pilots flying the Mad Dog for Delta.

And if this was him, do you think he want to share on a public site an awful landing? I admit when I have a bad landing, but I just wish people would stop thinking it is always him.

[rant over]

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lighten up toolbox....it was a joke. i am not so dumb to think that he is the only md88 driver out there....how come you are always ranting about something or other anyhow?
 
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lighten up toolbox....it was a joke. i am not so dumb to think that he is the only md88 driver out there....how come you are always ranting about something or other anyhow?

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A couple of handy ways to denote that you're telling a joke:

<joke> insert joke here </joke>

or the more popular:

<sarcasm> insert scathing remark here </sarcasm>
 
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I figured Prince and P Diddy can change their names, so could I!
laugh.gif
Anyway, going back to Mavmb. Admin denied my latest name change because it was "stupid"! Lol

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Workload management.
 
ok, sorry about that....ill have to figure out a way to express my rather dry sense of humor over the internet. didnt mean to bust anyones chops either.......
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ok, sorry about that....ill have to figure out a way to express my rather dry sense of humor over the internet. didnt mean to bust anyones chops either.......
cool.gif


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I thought you were serious, I guess it is the way you wrote your post. And fyi, I hardly get on anyone's case, sometimes I do, but there is a reason. If it were me, I would get sick of people asking "was it you, was it you" but that is just me.

My post wasn't really directed at you, but at everyone who does it. I should have made that more clear. Trust me, I wasn't trying to bust your chops. Sorry if it seemed like I did. And Doug was right, you need [sarcasm] tags or smileys, it goes a long way.
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Just wondering too if most of the airlines and the regionals have the Cat III ILS? Any of them have the CAT IIIc? (I've got the Jepp charts in front of me) The IIIC is the one where the ILS doesn't even have an DH or a runway visual range??? (Lots of questions today)


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There are times when an autoland is required and mandatory. And, there are times when the crew simply may elect to autoland for a variety of reasons (currency for both aircraft and crew, low wx, demonstration..) I've autolanded in clear blue skies. My lowest autoland was 800 RVR in Boston. Hardest part was finding my way to the ramp!

Anyway, no US carrier that I'm aware of is certified CAT IIIc. CAT IIIa (700 RVR) & IIIb(300-600RVR) approaches normally use whats called an "alert height" (set and called from the radar altimeter) instead of a "decision altitude" (set called from the baro altimeter).

With an alert height usually set at 100' RA, you're not required to see anything when you get there. With a decision height (actually called a "decision altitude")you are required to see something prior to landing (like a normal CAT I ILS). An "alert height" is basically a point where the Capt desides whether to continue to land or go-around based on aircraft systems being "green" for an autoland. You're not looking for anything out the front window nor are you required to see anything. Actually, at 100' the aircaft's systems redundancy should allow it to complete a successful autoland with a loss of a major system such as an engine failure, hyd or electrical failure. As long as you don't get some kind of "No Autoland" warning, the technique is to let it go ahead and autoland. If not, you do a hand flown go-around. This is probably the hardest thing for a pilot to do and that is to just sit on your hands if something fails below 100'.

Sometimes, an inop aircraft component prior to starting the approach requires us to set a 50' (yes, I said 50 feet!
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) DH on a CAT IIIa approach. This is read from the radar altimeter and we are requird to see something at 50' prior to landing.

Anything less than CAT I mins requires us to use the autoland feature. This is just a basic overview of autolanding.
 
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And if this was him, do you think he want to share on a public site an awful landing? I admit when I have a bad landing, but I just wish people would stop thinking it is always him.

[rant over]

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I dunno maybe if it had been Doug he wouldn't mind sharing his experience with others, why it happened, how it happened, how to avoid it, BUT then maybe he wouldn't...

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Not to get on your case, but why do people on this site assume or ask if it's Doug when there is an MD88 spotted doing something? I know he flies one, but there has to be at least another 500 pilots flying the Mad Dog for Delta.


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Every time I book a Delta flight and I notice I am going to be on a MD-88 into or out of ATL, I say "hmmm...I wonder if this will be the 1 in 700 times that I'll catch a flight with Doug...." For no other reason than I'd like to meet Doug and thank him for such a great website, and the obvious dedication it takes from him to run it...
 
I rode up front on a CAL 737-700 a few weeks ago with a new captain on IOE and a checkairman. They did an autoland in CLE. On an odd note, the Checkairman mentioned that you really have to watch it after touchdown because sometimes they have a hard time tracking the CL. Sure enough after touching down the A/C began drifting to the left and the captain had to correct for it. I was suprised at how much it did, but the checkairman said it was within what was acceptable. Interesting to see one first hand.
 
I wonder what its like to sit there and watch the plane land itself.....probably up there with being an instructor and watching a student land for the first time. although, on a much larger scale....
 
Interesting comment about the 737-700 tracking CL after landing. As I mentioned to Doug in an earlier thread the -800 I fly is a two axis auto-pilot. So the first thing we do after autoland touchdown is disconnect. Cause otherwise the autopilot will try to track CL with the airlerons which doesnt work at all.

I would be surprised if Boeing is doing anything different with the -700. If not then the extent to which it stays on CL is just luck;)

Dave
 
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