How many hours of sleep?
- Thread starter Kingairer
- Start date
Seggy
Well-Known Member
There is snow on the I-State in Florida as you go to work for Gulfstream in your base in FLL?
I would call in.
GaTechKid
Well-Known Member
Similar situation: After a day of cancellations I got in from a deadhead into my base. I was given a reduced rest to start a day 6 legs long. The trip started before my scheduled reserve period and if I took it I would have been able to make the commute back home no problem. The base is in a large city and it takes about 3 hours to go from the crew room to crashpad back to crew room.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Reserves? What are they? Our staffing plan revolves around 95% reserve usage during normal operations.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Same here, except on the CA side. It's 100% there. We've been using reserves to cover open time, but now we don't even have enough reserves to do that. I had TWO flights cancel tonight b/c they couldn't find a CA. That's three in two days for me....
Seggy
Well-Known Member
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
...and doesn't constitute an emergency on my part
!!!When I first got to my place of employment we were really short on FO's and Capts. Now we are fat on both, at least in my base (not sure about the others). Looks like the Company learned a lesson
.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
If my understanding of what you wrote is correct - you either could accept the trip, waive your contract and be able to commute out, or stick to it and get another trip which would require you to commute home the next day.
I think you bring up a good point - do you waive the contract when it is convenient for you, or do you stick do it to cut off your nose to spite your face?
I have waived the contract once here - we are guaranteed 12 hours in domicile between trips. Well, I ended up having one trip dropped for OE and decided to pick up a trip from someone trying to drop it. I had to waive the contract of 12 hours rest in domicile in order to be "legal" for it. This helped me (more $$) and helped the guy trying to drop it (going to a wedding).
EDUC8-or
Well-Known Member
Speaking of reserve and fatique, I had three days in a row that were over 13 hours, the middle day I timed out due to weather, but by the time we could get into the gate it was just over 15 hours.
They didn't have enough coverage this weekend, there were only 2 reserves that were qualified on the 700 and all kinds of flights that needed to be covered.
Back to the thread, if I'm not too tired to start the trip I would start it and call in fatiqued if need be. I'm sure I would have to get the FAA involved because they see that as an occurence in our dependability program.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
There's a discussion on waiving contract issues over on our company forums. Basically, if someone is legal (ie 24 hours of rest), but it's a 7th calendar day (per our contract) they CAN'T pick up a trip. Our contract won't allow it since it's a 7th consecutive calendar day, even though they're legal by FAA standards.
So, the arguement is that some people should be able to wave it. Then scheduling starts with the peer pressure. "We want you to pick this trip up." "I can't. It's my 7th day in a row." "Well, all the OTHER pilots waive that." And so on. Basically, you piss the scheduler off, then your life becomes a living hell brought down by an angry scheduler.
I've already been burned by this one in my short time here. Our contract duty is limited to around 15.5 hours, but in certain circumstances we can agree to go the full 16. I did that once to help out operationally. Then I had a DH from DTW to MEM after a highspeed. They wanted me to sit in the hotel for 11 hours, THEN fly home. Basically, with the highspeed from the night before, plus the DH from DTW-MEM in the morning, I woulda been at like 15 hours and 40 minutes. I said, "Hey, I can waive that right. I did last week to get a flight covered." Scheduler said "No. You have to go to the hotel." Therefore, no more favors to scheduling. Lesson learned.
So, the arguement is that some people should be able to wave it. Then scheduling starts with the peer pressure. "We want you to pick this trip up." "I can't. It's my 7th day in a row." "Well, all the OTHER pilots waive that." And so on. Basically, you piss the scheduler off, then your life becomes a living hell brought down by an angry scheduler.
I've already been burned by this one in my short time here. Our contract duty is limited to around 15.5 hours, but in certain circumstances we can agree to go the full 16. I did that once to help out operationally. Then I had a DH from DTW to MEM after a highspeed. They wanted me to sit in the hotel for 11 hours, THEN fly home. Basically, with the highspeed from the night before, plus the DH from DTW-MEM in the morning, I woulda been at like 15 hours and 40 minutes. I said, "Hey, I can waive that right. I did last week to get a flight covered." Scheduler said "No. You have to go to the hotel." Therefore, no more favors to scheduling. Lesson learned.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Next time asked to be released and be "limo'd" back to base. That's what we do here. The terms might be different but the situation is the same.
I think Kell's post highlights an important point - if people are waiving the contract for personal gain it ends up hurting the pilot group in the long run. If people continuously waive say days off by picking up open time then come contract time the company is gonna say "hey, everyone is waiving this anyway, obviously you don't care about it, so it's value means nothing". Hopefully that makes sense.
staplegun
Well-Known Member
Hey guys, just think "Scheduling" every time you see scorpion and "Pilot" evertime you see frog and it will all start to make sense....
The Scorpion and the Frog
One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.
Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"
"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.
"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"
"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"
"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.
"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.
"I could not help myself. It is my nature."
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.
Self destruction - "Its my Nature", said the Scorpion...
Kevin
The Scorpion and the Frog
One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.
Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"
"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.
"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"
"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"
"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.
"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.
"I could not help myself. It is my nature."
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.
Self destruction - "Its my Nature", said the Scorpion...
Kevin