How fast should an A&P work?

S

SoCalFlyer2

Well-Known Member
I am pilot/flight instructor working for an owner of a flight school in Van Nuys, CA. I'm also helping out with management trying to keep us afloat. We also do a fair amount of maintenance for ourselves and for another local flight school who has several planes. We recently aquired a new hangar and the rent is a lot of $$$$$. The problem is we have people who are on payroll that I believe are milking the system. The owner is dumping a lot of money each month into the biz and not getting the return. He is a super nice guy and doesn't do well confronting people. He told me he needs to trim the fat or get these guys motivated somehow. He's really old school and believes if he pays a guy for an hour of work he should get an hour of work in return. Imagine that...

I'm not a mechanic nor do I claim to be. My boss wants me to help him straighten things out around here but I don't know where to start. My question is, how are most A&P's paid? Recently we flew up north to replace a cylinder on a Seneca. The mechanic had a hot date or something that night so he busted out the job in a couple hours. Two weeks later we had to replace another cylinder on the same plane and it took him two days.

I was in the auto business years ago and the mechanics who worked at the dealer were all "ASE certified" which meant they could work on pretty much anything. However, everyone specialized in something (brakes, transmissions, etc) so they could complete the job in less time then the book specified. If the shop book said you should be able to do a brake job in 2 hours then you got paid 2 hours for the job. If the guy was good he could get it done in 1 hour but still got paid for 2. Some mechanics were flagging 80+ hours each week. A transmission guy making $25+/hr made a pretty decent living. Either way there was a specific amount of time so the mechanic knew what standard he was held to and the customer knew how much money they would have to spend on the repair.

So how do we keep tabs on these guys? Are there any GOOD people out there who work fast and experienced that need a job in the SoCal area? I'm looking for an experienced A&P that might become a shop manager and help solicit for new business. Oh, and you have to be willing to start work by 8AM. We can't seem to get our guys in here before 10AM and they're looking for lunch an hour later.
 
I'm really hard pressed to believe that anyone changed a cylinder in 2 hours, but then again, 2 days seems a little excessive, depending on the situation.

The problem that you have is that not every job is the same. It's not like assembling widgets where it takes 5 operations that take 30 seconds each and it's easily quantifiable. Your cylinder change has a bunch of hidden traps that could take an easy few hour job and turn it into a 2 day hell, and believe me, the mechanic hates it just as much as you do.

I would say that it's impossible for you to judge how well they're doing by how long it takes them to do something, unless you can identify specific cases of a mechanic deliberately taking longer on something than they should... to put it diplomatically.

Morale, I think, is key. If I did a cylinder change in 2 hours because everything went well, and I had "that kind of boss," who now thinks every cylinder change takes 2 hours what do you think that would do to my morale as a mechanic? How long do you think I would take to do a cylinder change next time? Where's the incentive? Are they worried about running out of work and being sent home? What other factors could be affecting their performance... do they have all the tools they need or are they constantly forced to improvise? How organized is your shop? Are they constantly digging for parts in random places?

Now I'm not saying that you're wrong and they're above reproach, but I'm saying that you need to look further than just "this time it took 2 days and last time it took 2 hours."

It really is a fine line to walk I suppose. Keep your eyes open and you should be able to see who's pulling their weight and who isn't.
 
I'm not sure how to address your situation, but one of the first things I noticed when I went from GA to the airlines, is how friggen FAST airline maintenance works. What took a day or more to be fixed on one of our Cessnas takes our mechanics here an hour, if that, and I'm not including time spent waiting for parts for the Cessna.

Part of it is the difference in airplanes, but a lot of it lies elsewhere. Figure out what that difference is, apply it to your business, and you'll be able to draw customers from far and wide.

I don't think it's facilities either, line maintenance works out of a little truck, though their back end support is massive. I don't see that support being called on much though.

As an example, when we needed one of our Cessnas to get a pitot-static check/calibration, it would be gone for DAYS. Here, 45 minutes to calibrate it, bam done.
 
IMO the best you can do is watch for people sitting on their butt excessively and getting paid for it. I would try to keep the line between making decisions and micromanagement pretty clear. Once you cross that line, the water gets muddy and nobody wins.
 
SoCalFlyer2 said:
I'm looking for an experienced A&P that might become a shop manager and help solicit for new business. Oh, and you have to be willing to start work by 8AM. We can't seem to get our guys in here before 10AM and they're looking for lunch an hour later.
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That I think will be key. It sounds like you could really use a shop supervisor who knows what's what both with managing people and with maintenance itself.
 
I will just say it again. No two jobs are the same. A job that should only take 20 minutes can turn into a job that takes 2 hours without the proper tooling, parts etc. Also anytime you open up an airplane you are liable to find a can of worms that makes a mess of the whole situation at any time. Also be careful how much you push them to go fast. The more people are rushed the more mistakes they make and in our business mistakes can be costly.
Seth
 
As an example, when we needed one of our Cessnas to get a pitot-static check/calibration, it would be gone for DAYS. Here, 45 minutes to calibrate it, bam done.
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We have a guy that comes to us, and the pitot/static is done in half an hour. Gone for days is pretty fishy.
 
sefro said:
I will just say it again. No two jobs are the same. A job that should only take 20 minutes can turn into a job that takes 2 hours without the proper tooling, parts etc. Also anytime you open up an airplane you are liable to find a can of worms that makes a mess of the whole situation at any time. Also be careful how much you push them to go fast. The more people are rushed the more mistakes they make and in our business mistakes can be costly.
Seth
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:yeahthat:
 
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