How did you get your start?

ashinsel

New Member
Hello all,
I'm fresh out of aviation school. About 600TT wet commercial. Looking around for starter jobs, but slim pickins from what I've found. Looking to found out how other people got their starts to build up to 1500 hour 135 mins. What was your first flying job? Howd you get it?
 
I'm not sure how much you and I have in common. I assume you are a younger guy who is a lot earlier in your career than I and your goal may be to fly for the majors. I fly for a part 91 aerial mapping op and am very content to stay but hopefully you can get something out of this. So - here ya go (LONG, but there is a point at the end)
:popcorn:

Flying was just a hobby for a long time. After a nasty divorce and some rearranged priorities I got a renewed interest in flying.

I never had any interest in teaching but I wanted to get my Instrument and Commercial so I needed to build time. With 115tt and only a PPL, I offered to make a website for the flight school where I learned to fly. They gave me flight time in trade and a few hours a month to maintain the site. I also offered to wash planes for them on weekends and earned even more flight time. I eventually had enough for my Instrument rating. I spent so much time at the airport that I got a lot of networking contacts. I met an instructor there and we became friends. He is still my instructor. He's an older guy, independently wealthy and instructing was basically a hobby for him. As he puts it, he now only accepts "students who already know how to land". Anyway, he got me through my commercial then I start ferrying aircraft around for the flight school for even more flight time.

Up to that point I wasn't even thinking of flying for a living since I owned a computer consulting company that made me a decent living. But I started getting bored with the computer thing and the profit margins were diminishing in that industry. My buddy who is a CA at Skywest suggested that if I ever wanted fly for a living that the regionals were hiring pretty low times(and also pretty low money). I decided that the good money I was making in the computer biz was not making me happy so I sold my company, and went to work as an avionics installer. I had met the owner of that avionics shop while ferrying airplanes over there for the flight school. He had a Baron and he wanted me to fly it to remote fields to do pitot static certs. So a few months later I get my multi but before I got any time in the Baron I got laid off there.

So I started sending out resumes and living off savings. About the time I had no money left I got an interview with Mesaba. It seemed to go well and I was one of two out of the interview group to get a letter of intent to hire and sent to drug testing but a week later got the dreaded nevermind letter. I found out the other person also did not get hired either and in fact they started furloughing shortly thereafter. That was Spring of 2007 when everything started going downhill.

So there I am, no job, no money left, no prospects for anything, let alone a flying job. I started Googling for anything and found the JC site. I found a thread talking about aerial mapping and there was a photo of one of my current company's 172s. I googled the tail number, google the reg address, found the personal website of the owner(at the time) and found that he and I share the same last name. I sent him an email saying that if he was the owner of this company that I wanted to work for him. Fortunately for me, the company mins at the time were 350tt. I had 450. Initially I heard nothing back and in the meantime I applied at one of the other aerial mapping companies. I was turned down for being too fat. I weighed 225 at the time.

I had signed a non-compete agreement with the company I sold my computer company to so I couldn't do that anymore. In desperation I thought about trying to borrow some money to get the CFI but found that half of the CFIs at the local flight school had given up and the rest were making nowhere near a living wage. I had resorted to local temp services but no one wanted to hire a 40 something guy that had once been President and VP of his own companies.

I was on my way back from another demoralizing interview at a temp agency when I got a call from the then owner of my current company. He remarked about us having the same last name and we determined that we in fact were not related. He offered me the job. Two guys had quit to take 135 jobs. I felt obligated to let him know that at 225 pounds I was too fat for one of the other similar companies. He said "Oh we got guys WAY bigger than that".

I worked three months before being offered the Chief Pilot position. The company has changed ownership since then and there have been some growing pains but generally I am happy here. I have developed an extraordinary working relationship with the VP of production at our client company and last Summer successfully negotiated adding two Piper Aztecs to the fleet. So now I'm at 2300tt and cranking out multi hours.

You'll notice that for me, getting from Private pilot with 115tt to ATP with 2300tt involved a certain measure of luck. It also involved some logistics. I heard a phrase a long time ago - I think it was a French phrase and unfortunately i forgot it but I did remember the meaning and have tried to live by it. It basically says, "Put yourself in the best position to take advantage of luck"

In other words, you need to learn the art of putting yourself in the right place at the right time. Sending out 100 resumes and waiting by the phone won't cut it. I've got 100 resumes sitting on my computer right now and zero positions open.

This site is a great resource for networking. Most here are good folks genuinely wanting to help their fellow pilots. There are also a few very bitter and negative members who spend a lot of time bashing companies from a point of ignorance or ridiculing another member's career choices. Learn to discriminate between good advice & bad advice.

Figure out how to use your non-aviation related talents to get you into circles that can help you.

Be persistent but know the difference between being persistent and being annoying.

Good luck to you and I hope this helps you or someone out in some way.
 
I never had any interest in teaching but I wanted to get my Instrument and Commercial so I needed to build time. With 115tt and only a PPL, I offered to make a website for the flight school where I learned to fly. They gave me flight time in trade and a few hours a month to maintain the site. I also offered to wash planes for them on weekends and earned even more flight time. I eventually had enough for my Instrument rating. I spent so much time at the airport that I got a lot of networking contacts. I met an instructor there and we became friends. He is still my instructor. He's an older guy, independently wealthy and instructing was basically a hobby for him. As he puts it, he now only accepts "students who already know how to land". Anyway, he got me through my commercial then I start ferrying aircraft around for the flight school for even more flight time.

Pretty much how I ended up flying after I hit 100 hours or so. After a divorce, I started flying more often to take my mind off of things. One thing led to another, flying gliders, then giving intro flights, then there was a shortage of tow pilots, so my tailwheel was paid for, then a shortage of CFIs, so my CFI training was gratis. I don't have any career goals in aviation right now - my computer industry job is too good to leave. At the same time, I could probably find an aviation gig now if that was absolutely what I wanted to do.

By the way, this was one of better posts I've seen in a while. You might not see a lot of it here, but most of us are happy, and for the most part, have been successful at hitting our goals in aviation.
 
By the way, this was one of better posts I've seen in a while. You might not see a lot of it here, but most of us are happy, and for the most part, have been successful at hitting our goals in aviation.
I like hearing that. I'm on my way to the commercial, only paused for money at the moment, and all I read and hear is how bad it is and how I should just quit now, get used to eating ramen, pursue what you studied in college(econ), blablabla

I like that you guys are real and enjoy what you do. That's all I could hope for my future and you guys give me the real anecdotal evidence that it's not a far fetched goal.
 
Is the pilot's weight an issue because of the weight of the mapping equipment in a small aircraft like a 172?

To be clear, they didn't actually call me "too fat", I was just trying to be humorous. Also I'm not "Jaba the Hut" fat anyway - Unfortunately I'm not in as good shape now but back then I was in the gym 6 days a week and was shaped more like a linebacker than a tomato. They simply said that 225 would disqualify me and would not elaborate. This is only the policy at one of the 5 vendors for our client company. If any of the others have such a policy, I've not heard about it.

The camera rig in the 172 weighs about 180ish so it's like having one rear seat passenger. So even with full fuel, depending on the model you've got about 160lbs of load remaining if you have a 225 pound pilot. The only thing I could think of was that they were concerned about training when you'd need an instructor in the right seat for a few days. It's perfectly legit to want to be within takeoff limits but I thought - it's not rocket science to simply short the fuel by 4 or 5 gallons for training. The bottom line is, that company can have whatever policy they want as long as it's otherwise legal. MY policy is that our aircraft should be flown within limits at all times. I don't have a pilot weight limit per se although you do have to draw a line somewhere for safety. If a 400 pounder applied that would get pretty tricky to work around.
 
To be clear, they didn't actually call me "too fat", I was just trying to be humorous. Also I'm not "Jaba the Hut" fat anyway - Unfortunately I'm not in as good shape now but back then I was in the gym 6 days a week and was shaped more like a linebacker than a tomato. They simply said that 225 would disqualify me and would not elaborate. This is only the policy at one of the 5 vendors for our client company. If any of the others have such a policy, I've not heard about it.

The camera rig in the 172 weighs about 180ish so it's like having one rear seat passenger. So even with full fuel, depending on the model you've got about 160lbs of load remaining if you have a 225 pound pilot. The only thing I could think of was that they were concerned about training when you'd need an instructor in the right seat for a few days. It's perfectly legit to want to be within takeoff limits but I thought - it's not rocket science to simply short the fuel by 4 or 5 gallons for training. The bottom line is, that company can have whatever policy they want as long as it's otherwise legal. MY policy is that our aircraft should be flown within limits at all times. I don't have a pilot weight limit per se although you do have to draw a line somewhere for safety. If a 400 pounder applied that would get pretty tricky to work around.

It would be impossible. I know in my 172, when we're ferrying with full fuel and my 7 months worth of bags that weigh a bit over 50lbs, and the box of oil, and random bits for the 100 hr, I'm awfully close to max gross, and I weigh 180. I do have bigger tanks then most 172's though, but that works out great for rev days when I get paid more.

BTW, where are you guys at mostly this year? We got the LA project that I think you guys have done years past. Really liking it here though.

To the OP, 600TT is enough to get looked at for time building jobs. CFI is probably the most common route.
 
It would be impossible. I know in my 172, when we're ferrying with full fuel and my 7 months worth of bags that weigh a bit over 50lbs, and the box of oil, and random bits for the 100 hr, I'm awfully close to max gross, and I weigh 180. I do have bigger tanks then most 172's though, but that works out great for rev days when I get paid more.

BTW, where are you guys at mostly this year? We got the LA project that I think you guys have done years past. Really liking it here though.

I'm in an Aztec now so I've been taking advantage of the payload but in years past I intentionally traveled extremely light. One small suitcase, my flight bag and a jacket. I think some of my guys carry everything they own with them. LOL.

RE: Los Angeles - yeah earlier in the season Pat and I were chuckling at the irony of having DWAS birds in FL and AA birds in CA. I think we are all enjoying the change of scenery. I requested that we get some east work if possible but we have been mired in/around Dallas TX a lot. We all bugged out for superbowl week but a lot of us will be going back there to finish up any day now. I got 3 guys in Charlotte NC right now. I came over to ABQ to do some hubble and it snowed immediately so I haven't gathered one usable image yet..

To the OP - Sorry we strayed off topic here. You didn't really indicate much about your family situation but if you don't mind living on the road for 7+ months of the year, aerial mapping is a pretty fun gig, you will rack up hours and it actually pays a relatively decent paycheck. The problem is that most of the hiring is done until end of next summer. You should keep an eye out on the jobs available section here. If I need anyone I'll post application instructions here around August. I'm usually looking for previous mapping experience but attitude is a big factor.
 
Yeah, I'm especially liking the 65+ degree days. But that snow has got to be killing in the east. I mean it's even in Texas! You almost can't go any further south.
I actually got asked if I was with you guys in Camarillo the other day ;)
 
z987k and pilotbry you guys are making me like the idea of mapping more and more. dang, what are the typical mapping reqs for insurance?
 
z987k and pilotbry you guys are making me like the idea of mapping more and more. dang, what are the typical mapping reqs for insurance?

There's a huge thread on it in the jobs available section. Might be a few pages back now. I think 500TT is kind of required, but I know we hired a few this year with less.
 
There's a huge thread on it in the jobs available section. Might be a few pages back now. I think 500TT is kind of required, but I know we hired a few this year with less.
Yeah I read the thread and all I was just wondering how the industry has changed in the past year or so.

Thanks for the info! Maybe next year for me, when does hiring begin anyway? I thought it was fall, but you said this year so maybe you meant this work year as in last fall (2010)?
 
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