How come ATP is not part 141?

[stillageek]

A part 141 school goes in stages and gives ground school. I am a very unhappy person coming from the 90 day program. It really is a scam. A part 141 will give you ground training and ATP doesn't do ground school until you find out that you have to sign a statement saying you received the training or Jim Kisarski will kick you out. They are a fraudulent company!!!

Sounds awfully fishy. There's gotta be a LOT more to the story. I went thru ATP, instructed, went to American Eagle and am hoping to come back to help with the RJ course. Jim is a very fair guy. True he can be a little on the "just the facts" side, but I have never heard of a student being kicked out for being late to 1 check ride or anything petty. It's always been one big screw up or a pattern of screw ups. ATP doesn't spoon feed anyone....and neither will the airlines.

 

[ayseaf]

What is the part 141 mean ?

 

[fly8slep]

As a graduate of ATP and as someone who has moved on to a regional with the experience gained at ATP I can't say that it's a scam. It really does work however it's a "self serve" type of operation. If you can't study on your own or know that you're a good pilot, well competent pilot, then you probably won't succeed in the program. My biggest problem was with the CFI school, that is a whole different story, I've been away from ATP for a year now and don't know if they fixed it but the LAS CFI program was a disaster, oh I'm getting flashbacks.. ATP will always be controversial school because guys drop out and spred the word like ATP is a "scam" of a school but it's generals the guys that shouldn't have been there in the first place. It does make a good pilot out of you, they put you up in a multi, with no IFR XC experienc and they make you fly around the country, that will open your eyes and mind very quickly. They use checklists and I think we had very basic flows/profiles in the flying. It did get me ready for the airline operations. I had a huge advantage over guys who didn't even know how to pick up a clearance other than from the tower.

 

[fly8slep]

What is the part 141 mean ?

It's the type of pilot training. Pt.141 is professional pilot training, not your typcial mom and pop cessna 152 rental place. Pt61 is just mom and pop type of schools. Pt 141 is harder to run because of the FAA requirements you have to meet. Generally airlines like pt141 training better because you have to follow a syllabus and you have to be up to standards, where as at pt61 schools anything goes, you can take forever to finish up a license if you'd like.

 

[minitour]

No reason why you couldn't do a 141 program in 90 days. It would take a lot more planning to get all of the phase checks involved. I think you are right on one thing though- there needs to be "official" ground school. Self-study alone does not cut it under 141.

Michael

Yep.

They could do it...it wouldn't be that hard (obtaining the 141 certification).

If they wanted to do 141 training at all locations, they'd need assistant chief's at every location except the one where they have a chief instructor. Check instructors aren't really required (nor allowed unless you have a minimum number of students in the program) so that's not a big deal. Either way, the asst. chief (hell, the chief instructor) ride for 141 was......a joke. I took our POI up to a practice area, did a steep turn, a stall, came back and did a landing. Certainly ATP could find instructors qualified under 141 that could pass such a checkride.

The biggest thing with 141 is the paperwork. Lots and lots of paperwork. Everyone has to know what they're doing or it won't work.

All of that said, I had no idea they weren't part 141. Are they able to train foreign students? Are they able to issue the paperwork for student visas? We had to get 141 certification so we could do that and I'm wondering how much of that was just some fed on a power-trip.

-mini