How come ATP is not part 141?
- Thread starter tonynsx
- Start date
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Because they couldnt get you through in 90 days if it was part 141. Part 141 requires stage checks, official ground schools, and a ton of other things. I was talking to the chief flight instructor at my school, which has a Part 141 private program, and he was saying that to be approved for 141 you have to have silly things like a water fountain and restrooms and a break room. The planes have to be 141 approved. 5 of our planes are approved, the other 4 or so are not. Its a real hassle. Im glad ATP was not 141.
-Rob
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Its simply not set up to be part 141. With 20 something locations spread all over the country, ATP would have to restructure the entire company to make it part 141. They would need chief pilots and check airmen at each location. Furthermore, the amount of paperwork and record keeping would be overwhelimg for a flight school the size of ATP. Plus, as Rob said, theres no way that they could offer a 90 day program under part 141.
Its just not worth it. ATP has a system that works very well. The only advantage to being part 141 is the GI bill. ATP has plenty of students as it is. it just wouldnt make sense to restructure the entire company to get a few ex-military customers.
There are a ton of other part 141 shools out there.
Its just not worth it. ATP has a system that works very well. The only advantage to being part 141 is the GI bill. ATP has plenty of students as it is. it just wouldnt make sense to restructure the entire company to get a few ex-military customers.
There are a ton of other part 141 shools out there.
Michael95U
Well-Known Member
No reason why you couldn't do a 141 program in 90 days. It would take a lot more planning to get all of the phase checks involved. I think you are right on one thing though- there needs to be "official" ground school. Self-study alone does not cut it under 141.
Michael
tobaknight
New Member
Panama City is Part 141 for the Private Program only.
anavalairman2
New Member
So, does that mean that the Dept. of Veteran Affairs approved the PPL to be a non recreational license? Also, why only Panama City? Why not have other locations as 141 ppl if Panama City gets to have it with that structure and with it being 141, do you still get the same amount of hours or do you fly 40 hours and buy a block to get up to speed for the acpp?
I'm starting the 141 private program in Panama City on March 3. From what I understand Panama City is the test location for 141 operations, but all locations may switch at some point down the road if everything works out. As for the 90 day program, I don't know ATP's intentions.
A part 141 school goes in stages and gives ground school. I am a very unhappy person coming from the 90 day program. It really is a scam. A part 141 will give you ground training and ATP doesn't do ground school until you find out that you have to sign a statement saying you received the training or Jim Kisarski will kick you out. They are a fraudulent company!!!
The school makes every effort to make you quit or fail out. I didn't quit or fail, so I got a call from the VP Jim Kisarski saying I was out of the program. When i asked for a reason, because this was out of left feild way left field, I was told that he can kick me out at anytime for anyreason and that was that. I thougth I would be the last person for this to happen to because i had all writtens done and was ahead in the program. I saw this happen to many others. My roomate was never told about his check ride until 1/2 and hour before and he was an hour away from the airport. Jim Kisarski called him up and kicked him out for something that was the fault of the instructor. This school is a fraud. And they only teach enough to pass a check ride. It is not by any means training for the airlines.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Wow! Sorry to hear about your bad experiences!
I'll just repeat myself a few times in the different threads that you have posted in:
Be veeeeeery careful about calling "fraud" unless you understand the definiion of the word and it truly matches your situation. (While you are looking up definitions, I will admit to censure but not censor)
Obviously this is a hot button topic for you due to your situation, so please recognize that it is best to stick to the facts of what happened to you while trying to avoid sensationalistic claims. It will make you more credible.
anavalairman2
New Member
That's awesome! Good luck with it. And for a round of questions!
- What paper work is required?
- How long did the process with the VA take?
- What's the total cost?
- Do you come out with the advertised amount of hours?
- Do you have to pay anything out of pocket?
tobaknight
New Member
As I understand it, they bought an existing 141 operation in Panama City, so they were able to maintain the 141 status at that location. I'm guessing there are more hoops to jump through to obtain 141 status than to maintain an existing operation.
Panama City has 141 instructors. Well 2 of the are 141 approved. The January private class was 141. Seemed to me like it was awful for them because of the lack of organization and communication at ATP. My February private class was part 61. I got my private in 6 weeks. Worked out perfect. The March privates are 61. Seems like they aren't going to do any more 141 classes here. I'm glad I wasn't 141. 61 allows more freedom.
Sounds like you either had a personal problem or a bad instructor. My instructors have been very good. One instructor even told me to never allow myself to be taught only an example checkride by an instructor. He said to make sure the instructor teaches everything. Every manuever and every bit of information about aviation and your aircraft.
Gbh1268
New Member
I started ATP at PFN on Mon. and we still dont know if we are 141 or 61...they havnt made up their minds.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
That sucks that happened to you. However calling it a Fraud is erroneous. (I always try to work that word into my everyday vocabulary.) There are plenty Ex ATP guys and gals on here and flying for the airlines that would surely disagree with you. The Captain on my last 4 day was an ATP grad and she had just been called to start training with Southwest. Thats 6 years from ATP to one of the best (in my opinion) airlines around. Not really any fraud there if you ask me.
However there is lots of self study and it is the only way to get all the material done in 90 days. My instructors were always there to help if I ever got stumped on anything. Passed every check ride first time except initial CFI (kinda ironic that the only phase of training at ATP that has formal ground school) and breezed through my 121 airline training, so I don't think my training was inadequate.
If you want to be sat down and have everything read to you and drawn on a chalkboard then ATP may not be your place.
BillH
New Member
There is two sides to every story.
No matter what school you go to, I find through observation, the absolute quickest way to get kicked out is to talk bad about the school in front of others, especially new students. Ah like I said before, keep a low profile, do what your told, be friendly, and above all else, be agreeable, especially to the folks in Dispatch. For what ever reason, Mike must of licked me a lot to allow me to go on a week long road trip to New Orleans and then resume the final portion of my CFI training with no questions asked. If I was to read everything on this board about ATP, I would of been deftly afraid to ask dispatch for that!
No matter what school you go to, I find through observation, the absolute quickest way to get kicked out is to talk bad about the school in front of others, especially new students. Ah like I said before, keep a low profile, do what your told, be friendly, and above all else, be agreeable, especially to the folks in Dispatch. For what ever reason, Mike must of licked me a lot to allow me to go on a week long road trip to New Orleans and then resume the final portion of my CFI training with no questions asked. If I was to read everything on this board about ATP, I would of been deftly afraid to ask dispatch for that!