Honest question

[A-300F4-622R]

This was posted by Cencal83406. I started this thread here, hoping that it will get more traffic. I'll post his remarks, then I'll ask a question for all the regional pilots and up and coming regional pilots to answer. Here is his post...

"Real sad though, the amount of RJs. All those RJ crews that you photographed are competing for that one B737 slot at Delta.

Hopefully there are doubles, but I counted 25 RJs to one 73.... 1/25 chance for an RJ pilot to ever get to a major (yes, this is fuzzy math and I hope I'm wrong).

RJ Drivers (including me), have a 4% chance of getting on with a major carrier."

Actually he forgot to factor in the military pilots and non-regional civilian pilots that will also be competing for future major jobs.

My question is since it apparently looks so bleak for a regional pilot to ever make it to a major, is working at a regional knowing that still worth it? Or do you think that you will be one of the lucky ones to actually make it?

Do you hope to get growth at your regional so you can upgrade and get the turbine PIC, knowing that growth at the regional diminishes your chance of making it to a major or do you want to slug it out as a F/O and hope to see some growth at the majors, hoping that by attrition, you will eventually upgrade?

It seems to me that regional pilots are in a Catch-22 situation. If they want to go to a major, they need regionals to stop expanding. That leads to a less upgrade opportunities and a poorer QOL. If they want to upgrade quick and have a better QOL, that means that the regional is growing at the expense of mainline and that diminishes their hope of making it to a major.

Do you guys still have the mindset that YOU will be the exception and make it to a major when all the signs point to you NOT making it to major? Or have you resigned yourself to a life at the regionals and hope to make it a better place to have a career, even if it takes away flying from the majors?

I'm asking this question with no agenda. It's something that I'm genuinely curious about.

 

[mrivc211]

This was posted by Cencal83406. I started this thread here, hoping that it will get more traffic. I'll post his remarks, then I'll ask a question for all the regional pilots and up and coming regional pilots to answer. Here is his post...


"Real sad though, the amount of RJs. All those RJ crews that you photographed are competing for that one B737 slot at Delta.

Hopefully there are doubles, but I counted 25 RJs to one 73.... 1/25 chance for an RJ pilot to ever get to a major (yes, this is fuzzy math and I hope I'm wrong).

RJ Drivers (including me), have a 4% chance of getting on with a major carrier."


Actually he forgot to factor in the military pilots and non-regional civilian pilots that will also be competing for future major jobs.

My question is since it apparently looks so bleak for a regional pilot to ever make it to a major, is working at a regional knowing that still worth it? Or do you think that you will be one of the lucky ones to actually make it?

Do you hope to get growth at your regional so you can upgrade and get the turbine PIC, knowing that growth at the regional diminishes your chance of making it to a major or do you want to slug it out as a F/O and hope to see some growth at the majors, hoping that by attrition, you will eventually upgrade?

It seems to me that regional pilots are in a Catch-22 situation. If they want to go to a major, they need regionals to stop expanding. That leads to a less upgrade opportunities and a poorer QOL. If they want to upgrade quick and have a better QOL, that means that the regional is growing at the expense of mainline and that diminishes their hope of making it to a major.

Do you guys still have the mindset that YOU will be the exception and make it to a major when all the signs point to you NOT making it to major? Or have you resigned yourself to a life at the regionals and hope to make it a better place to have a career, even if it takes away flying from the majors?

I'm asking this question with no agenda. It's something that I'm genuinely curious about.

We all know the numbers. Theres no need to plaster it in front of our faces.

 

[A-300F4-622R]

We all know the numbers. Theres no need to plaster it in front of our faces.

I'm not the one that made up the odds. I'm asking an honest question. Do you still think you will make it to a major, or have you given up and plan on a career at the regionals?

 

[Bumblebee]

I never worry about odds. I feel that if I want something, I can find a way to get there. If I don't get there, I'll at least be getting somewhere. Not just staying static; at least growing while trying to achieve my goals and dreams.

There are opportunities you hope for and expect , and there may be even better opportunities you don't expect. Some folks will prevail and some will not. If you consider that life is a journey then there is no wasted time.

I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunities I have had.

(Sorry if I am rambling, but I am pretty tired andthis is the best I can do right now. )

I will say that many of the pilots I know that wanted to move to a major, had the time and inclination, have done so.

Do you hope to get growth at your regional so you can upgrade and get the turbine PIC, knowing that growth at the regional diminishes your chance of making it to a major or do you want to slug it out as a F/O and hope to see some growth at the majors, hoping that by attrition, you will eventually upgrade?

I have upgraded already due to expansion, then retraction put me into reserve. I really had a lot to learn when I came to the regional about the way things work.

It seems to me that regional pilots are in a Catch-22 situation. If they want to go to a major, they need regionals to stop expanding. That leads to a less upgrade opportunities and a poorer QOL. If they want to upgrade quick and have a better QOL, that means that the regional is growing at the expense of mainline and that diminishes their hope of making it to a major.

This is quite an accurate portrayal.

I also wonder what else would a pilot do? You are a flight instructor, and want to work for a major airline....what are the options? The regional business has taken advantage of being a stepping stone, to the point where that is essentially their business model. I did not know how hard being a regional airline pilot would be, what kind of sacrifices it would take. I read about some of the stuff here, but it's never the same until you are experiencing it.

Do you guys still have the mindset that YOU will be the exception and make it to a major when all the signs point to you NOT making it to major? Or have you resigned yourself to a life at the regionals and hope to make it a better place to have a career, even if it takes away flying from the majors?

I do have the mindset that I will be able to have the career that I want. If I want to get to SWA or Delta, then that is still a possibility. Right now I am not focusing in those directions, but I am a pilot, I keep my resume fresh and my options open.

 

[A-300F4-622R]

I never worry about odds. I feel that if I want something, I can find a way to get there. If I don't get there, I'll at least be getting somewhere. Not just staying static; at least growing while trying to achieve my goals and dreams.

There are opportunities you hope for and expect , and there may be even better opportunities you don't expect. Some folks will prevail and some will not. If you consider that life is a journey then there is no wasted time.

I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunities I have had.

I am a little tired but this is the best I can do right now.

I will say that many of the pilots I know that wanted to move to a major, had the time and inclination, have done so.

I think this is an important point. There are many that SAY they want to go to a major, but what are they ACTUALLY doing to help them stand out from the crowd?

 

[Bumblebee]

You know I think alot of regional guys get to the point where they have the time, and could even get the gig, but they hold good seniority, and by then they have figured out how to have a good life on mediocre money. So they make the criteria so fine as to what it would take to get them to move to a major, that those elements, never align. So they just stay.

 

[mrivc211]

I think this is an important point. There are many that SAY they want to go to a major, but what are they ACTUALLY doing to help them stand out from the crowd?

I've interviewed at two majors and what I found was that a lot of it has to do with being at the right place at the right time. Sometimes, your number just comes up and off you go. Sometimes the interviewer likes you, others not so much. Too much of it is out of your hands.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Many of the Skywest captains I talk to have no plans to go to a major, many of them say they are happy where they are and don't want to start from the bottom again. That kind of surprises me.

 

[E_Dawg]

A300, how did you get your 'in' at your major airline? Had you always planned on it? Did you work at a place with lower QOL in order to get to where you are now? Honest questions.

As for your questions, first I think the numbers are skewed and 4% is too low. As Dale said not everyone at regionals have a desire to move on to the majors. Plenty of guys say they 'want' to move on, but won't even lift a finger to total their logbooks and fill out an application. Or study for the interview. Or spend time on networking websites.

And plenty of guys just plain have no desire, their pay and QOL are adequate, they have families, and they don't want to start at the bottom rung at a brand new airline. I heard one captain saying if he wasn't at a major by age 29 he would just stay put. Fair enough.

But for some people it's not a question of 'if'.

 

[RICHARD5]

TO: All

Please keep thinking the majors are the only goal in life. To that end, everything you do, inside and out of aviaition, is designed to move you forward toward that one goal of a pilot position with the majors. Just stay away from Pt 135.

Now, to the OP. For all the champions in the world, how many started on that path to victory? That they may not achieve the title of 1st place does not even enter into their minds. At least those who hope to achieve a measured success. No one would start if they thought they would not finish. Here in lies the answer...success is what you make of it. I'm certainly no Mark Spitz (although I swam against him once) or Michael Phelps, but because I didn't have the speed didn't dissuade me from being a competitive swimmer giving it my all.

 

[skydog2]

One of the reasons the majors were (as in past tense) so desirable is because of the superior pay and better work rules. But it was the superior pay and work rules that had a hand in the outsourcing of flying to regional airlines. The only reason to outsource work is because it is cheaper than doing the work in-house. If you want more major airline jobs, the way to get them is to make it cost efficient to keep the flying in-house.

Therein lays the real catch-22. Everything that makes working for a major airline so desirable results in fewer jobs at the majors. To get job growth at the majors you have to give up what makes a major airline job so desirable in the first place.

 

[Inverted25]

I guess my question is what is so medicore about some the captain pay at the regionals. Take expressjet. A 10 year captain is making $72,000. I wouldn't conisder it to be hard to live off that. Say your wife has a decent job your making over 100k combined. I just dont get the attitude that you can make a living at a regional airline. I would think that personally if I ever went crazy and went that route that once I had the seniorty and decent pay I wouldnt want to leave to be the low man on the senoirty list and take a pay cut.

 

[flyingmaniac]

The only reason why I wanted to go to the majors was to fly internationally. Not to the North American countries but actually over the oceans.

It is a recurring theme to me that it is going to take longer than thought of but, I have other options of flying for a foreign carrier if needed. That possibly will give me a better chance than to apply with a carrier here in the states.

I can live in some places with a meager wage, but it is not what I want to finish with. I am all for the best pay possible.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I think the best option is to plan for a life at your current company but also work to open opportunites to move on. That way all your bases are covered.

Is my current job my dream job? Not by a long shot. But at my current airline those high on the seniority list enjoy a pretty good quality of life and make enough that I'd be able to provide well for my family.

I'd love to move on, but it really comes down to timing. If/When the chance comes you have to look at all your options and figure out what is best for you. Most of the people who went on to majors towards the end of the last wave of hiring would probably be better off had they stayed where they were.

Working at a major has much better QOL than a regional, but is it worth risking your (and your family's) financial well being to jump from the middle of a seniority list to the bottom of another?I think you have to take that on a case by case basis. But then again when your flying consists only of contracts with other companies that can be cancelled or not renewed, that's pretty risky too.

 

[CFIscare]

Set high goals, but don't think plan too far into the future. Work hard to improve your current situation while balancing that with positioning yourself for future success.

Isn't that pretty much what everybody needs to do, regardless if they are a regional pilot or not even a pilot at all?

Only a few players can make it into the majors, so why does everybody play minor ball? For many different reasons.

For me, I will strive for the majors but I will just roll with the punches. My goal is to work hard, regardless of where I end up, and I can only hope I get to a position that makes me happy and satisfied.

 

[MikeD]

Set high goals, but don't think plan too far into the future. Work hard to improve your current situation while balancing that with positioning yourself for future success.

Isn't that pretty much what everybody needs to do, regardless if they are a regional pilot or not even a pilot at all?

Only a few players can make it into the majors, so why does everybody play minor ball? For many different reasons.

For me, I will strive for the majors but I will just roll with the punches. My goal is to work hard, regardless of where I end up, and I can only hope I get to a position that makes me happy and satisfied.

And remember, the majors are not the end-all be-all pinnacle of aviation. There are a good number of aviation jobs that pay equitably and are a heck of alot more fun, IMO. Just know that you have a fork in the road career-wise, and are not stuck on a one-way street.

 

[deek]

The only reason why I wanted to go to the majors was to fly internationally. Not to the North American countries but actually over the oceans.

This is the main reason why I hope I can get to a major someday. I'm still in school but it's my goal for right now. But I can understand the willingness to stay at a regional once you made it to the top there, it's as stable as you can get really, and right now, stable looks pretty darn good, certainly when the family has a say.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

And remember, the majors are not the end-all be-all pinnacle of aviation. There are a good number of aviation jobs that pay equitably and are a heck of alot more fun, IMO. Just know that you have a fork in the road career-wise, and are not stuck on a one-way street.

Yup, I have some friends that went back to corporate, FAA, cargo, etc and they are all happy where they are at. You just have to make the choice that is right for you and your family. There is only so much one can do to control his career, after that you just have faith.

 

[Bumblebee]

I guess my question is what is so medicore about some the captain pay at the regionals. Take expressjet. A 10 year captain is making $72,000. I wouldn't conisder it to be hard to live off that.

It depends on where you live and the lifestyle you want to have. I agree that 72K a year is pretty good...but in California, that does not go along way.

 

[scramjet]

The more I see of the American airline industry, the more I want to fly overseas for a foreign company. But you can never say never because you just never know where you might end up down the road. Part 135 used to really appeal to me (and it still does for the most part), but I like airline benefits. I grew up with them, still have them while in college, and really don't want to have to do without them if I can help it. I love to travel and flying benefits are hands down one of the biggest perks that the bargain oriented traveler can have.