Hold Rule of Thumb
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MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I avoid all of the varuious pencils and pens and body parts on the DG when teaching hold entries, but, as I reall, your thumb points straight up and your fingers point outward at the AIM 70° angle, and somehow that takes the place of understanding hold entries.
RPJ
Well-Known Member
Theres one little trick I like and works quite well. For standard hold patterns, when other than direct entry remember:
If a LEFT turn is required to stay within the race track pattern- enter PARALLEL
THINK L in PARALLEL.
If a RIGHT turn is required to stay within the race track pattern- enter TEARDROP
THINK R in TEARDROP
for non-standard other than direct just reverse it. L teardrop, R parallel.
Good Luck!
If a LEFT turn is required to stay within the race track pattern- enter PARALLEL
THINK L in PARALLEL.
If a RIGHT turn is required to stay within the race track pattern- enter TEARDROP
THINK R in TEARDROP
for non-standard other than direct just reverse it. L teardrop, R parallel.
Good Luck!
PanJet
Well-Known Member
This may be more confusing than helpful, but I'll try to explain it the way I teach it.
If the hold is a left turn hold, put your left thumb on the left side of the DG with the bottom of your thumb on the heading 90 degrees left of the current heading (e.g. if your current heading is 360 the bottom of your left thumb will be on the 270 degree mark).
Then draw an imaginary line straight across the DG from the top of your left thumb. It's assumed your thumb will cover about 30 degrees, so using the same scenario as before, the line should go from about the 300 degree mark across the DG to the 120 degree mark. Then draw an imaginary line straight down from the top of the DG to meet the other line.
You now have three sectors. The bottom (120 to 300) is always direct entry, and of the two top ones the smaller one is always teardrop and the other is parallel. In this example teardrop would be from 300 to 360 and parallel would be from 360 to 120. Find your outbound heading for the hold, and then look to see which sector it falls in on your DG, and that should give you the type of entry you need to make.
For right turns holds, it's the same exact thing, but use your right thumb on the right side of the CG. Always remember the smallest sector is teardrop. So in the same scenario as above, except right turns, 360 to 060 would be teardrop, 060 to 240 would be direct, and 240 to 360 would be parallel.
Okay, I know this was probably very confusing, but it makes a lot of sense if you can see it, so try drawing out what I just told you on a piece of paper and you might see what I'm talking about. Also, I think there are a lot of published things that somehow do a very similar thing with the inbound heading, but this is the way I was taught and how I teach it, and it works every time.
If the hold is a left turn hold, put your left thumb on the left side of the DG with the bottom of your thumb on the heading 90 degrees left of the current heading (e.g. if your current heading is 360 the bottom of your left thumb will be on the 270 degree mark).
Then draw an imaginary line straight across the DG from the top of your left thumb. It's assumed your thumb will cover about 30 degrees, so using the same scenario as before, the line should go from about the 300 degree mark across the DG to the 120 degree mark. Then draw an imaginary line straight down from the top of the DG to meet the other line.
You now have three sectors. The bottom (120 to 300) is always direct entry, and of the two top ones the smaller one is always teardrop and the other is parallel. In this example teardrop would be from 300 to 360 and parallel would be from 360 to 120. Find your outbound heading for the hold, and then look to see which sector it falls in on your DG, and that should give you the type of entry you need to make.
For right turns holds, it's the same exact thing, but use your right thumb on the right side of the CG. Always remember the smallest sector is teardrop. So in the same scenario as above, except right turns, 360 to 060 would be teardrop, 060 to 240 would be direct, and 240 to 360 would be parallel.
Okay, I know this was probably very confusing, but it makes a lot of sense if you can see it, so try drawing out what I just told you on a piece of paper and you might see what I'm talking about. Also, I think there are a lot of published things that somehow do a very similar thing with the inbound heading, but this is the way I was taught and how I teach it, and it works every time.
jrh
Well-Known Member
I do pretty much the same thing as PanJet except I don't use my hands. In other words, I divide the heading indicator into three sectors to determine which entry to use, but I don't use my hands to remember how to divide it.
I tell students to mentally draw a line horizontally across the heading indicator. So if their heading is 360, mentally draw a line from 270 to 090.
Next, "twist" the line so it is raised 20 degrees higher on the side of the hold's direction of turns. So in the example I just gave, for right turns, mentally twist the horizontal line counterclockwise and raise the right side. The line would run from 250 to 070. Conversely, for left turns, raise the left side -- 290 to 110.
Finally, mentally drop a line down from the top of the heading indicator to the center of the instrument face.
Now the instrument face should be divided in to three sectors (two sectors on top and one big one on the bottom). If the OUTBOUND course for the hold falls in the smallest sector, it's a teardrop entry. In the middle-sized sector is a parallel entry. Largest sector is direct entry.
Why use the outbound course you might ask, instead of the inbound course? Because ATC oftentimes says the outbound course in your hold instructions. "Cessna 123, hold west of the ABC VOR along the 270 radial..."
There you have it--the outbound course in that case would be 270.
I should also stress I mainly use this method to determine the correct entry method, but not visualize the entire hold. I use it more like, "Ok, I KNOW this will be a parallel entry, now I need to visualize *why* it's a parallel entry." For visualizing the hold itself I usually do it in my head, but for new students sometimes I'll have them make a quick sketch on their kneeboard.
Why not have them make a quick sketch to determine the entry procedure to begin with? Mainly because I rarely see students draw holds perfectly to scale. What they draw on their paper might look correct, but in reality be 20 or 30 degrees different from what is actually happening, thus leading them to choose the wrong (or should I say, less efficient) entry method. By working backwards from what they know is the correct entry, then drawing out WHY it's the correct entry, they are less prone to mis-visualizing the hold.
As for night landings...umm...reference the instruments more, pay attention to the shape of the runway for determining approach angle, use VASI/PAPI systems if available, peripheral vision is extra important, unless on a narrow runway, begin to flare as the runway edge lights "rush up" to the sides, don't focus too much on where the landing light beam shines (look further down the runway), be aware of the common illusions such as black hole approaches or approaches to runways with significantly different dimensions from what one is used to landing on....shoot, I think you ought to open another thread for that question
I tell students to mentally draw a line horizontally across the heading indicator. So if their heading is 360, mentally draw a line from 270 to 090.
Next, "twist" the line so it is raised 20 degrees higher on the side of the hold's direction of turns. So in the example I just gave, for right turns, mentally twist the horizontal line counterclockwise and raise the right side. The line would run from 250 to 070. Conversely, for left turns, raise the left side -- 290 to 110.
Finally, mentally drop a line down from the top of the heading indicator to the center of the instrument face.
Now the instrument face should be divided in to three sectors (two sectors on top and one big one on the bottom). If the OUTBOUND course for the hold falls in the smallest sector, it's a teardrop entry. In the middle-sized sector is a parallel entry. Largest sector is direct entry.
Why use the outbound course you might ask, instead of the inbound course? Because ATC oftentimes says the outbound course in your hold instructions. "Cessna 123, hold west of the ABC VOR along the 270 radial..."
There you have it--the outbound course in that case would be 270.
I should also stress I mainly use this method to determine the correct entry method, but not visualize the entire hold. I use it more like, "Ok, I KNOW this will be a parallel entry, now I need to visualize *why* it's a parallel entry." For visualizing the hold itself I usually do it in my head, but for new students sometimes I'll have them make a quick sketch on their kneeboard.
Why not have them make a quick sketch to determine the entry procedure to begin with? Mainly because I rarely see students draw holds perfectly to scale. What they draw on their paper might look correct, but in reality be 20 or 30 degrees different from what is actually happening, thus leading them to choose the wrong (or should I say, less efficient) entry method. By working backwards from what they know is the correct entry, then drawing out WHY it's the correct entry, they are less prone to mis-visualizing the hold.
As for night landings...umm...reference the instruments more, pay attention to the shape of the runway for determining approach angle, use VASI/PAPI systems if available, peripheral vision is extra important, unless on a narrow runway, begin to flare as the runway edge lights "rush up" to the sides, don't focus too much on where the landing light beam shines (look further down the runway), be aware of the common illusions such as black hole approaches or approaches to runways with significantly different dimensions from what one is used to landing on....shoot, I think you ought to open another thread for that question
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
jrh
Well-Known Member
I must've gotten a run of lousy artists then
A lot of my students do alright with sketches on the ground, but when it comes to sketching and flying the plane at the same time, their sketches get thrown off by a large margin.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
You have me a bit curious about this. Overall it seems to me that you'd get an appropriate entry so long as you placed the hold and airplane in the drawing in the right quadrants. Do you think it's a drawing problem or an direction/orientation or interpretation problem? I'm sure there are folks who, even if =you= drew the picture or the hold was published, would still not be able to orient themselves with respect to it. Obviously those folks need another method.I must've gotten a run of lousy artists then
A lot of my students do alright with sketches on the ground, but when it comes to sketching and flying the plane at the same time, their sketches get thrown off by a large margin.
B767Driver
New Member
Midlife,
What's your experience observing a pilot's division of attention and aircraft control while making the sketch? Is it a no brainer? Or does it have the potential to lead to disorientation and loss of aircraft control?
I'm trying to remember how I taught it...but I'm pretty sure I advocated mental pictures applied to the heading indicator/hsi.
But I definitely used drawings and pictures, extensively, on the ground while learning the topic.
What's your experience observing a pilot's division of attention and aircraft control while making the sketch? Is it a no brainer? Or does it have the potential to lead to disorientation and loss of aircraft control?
I'm trying to remember how I taught it...but I'm pretty sure I advocated mental pictures applied to the heading indicator/hsi.
But I definitely used drawings and pictures, extensively, on the ground while learning the topic.
tgrayson
New Member
I think this is a "whatever works for you" topic.
I teach a mental HSI image technique, and to me, it is the quickest, least amount of brainpower way to figure out a holding entry. After teaching it, I quiz my students in the air by giving them random holding instructions in rapid succession - and once they learn the concept they can spit out the proper entry in under a second.
I've done IPCs and have seen a wide variety of techniques (little holding calculators, sketches, complete guesses) and you know what? All those pilots made it work, and I certainly didn't try and make them re-learn a new technique. (Okay - if someone had a used a complete guess technique, I might have showed them a better way.)
I bet if Mark exclusively teaches sketches, they are pretty good at sketches. My students are good at HSI-visualization. Doesn't matter much either way, IMO.
I teach a mental HSI image technique, and to me, it is the quickest, least amount of brainpower way to figure out a holding entry. After teaching it, I quiz my students in the air by giving them random holding instructions in rapid succession - and once they learn the concept they can spit out the proper entry in under a second.
I've done IPCs and have seen a wide variety of techniques (little holding calculators, sketches, complete guesses) and you know what? All those pilots made it work, and I certainly didn't try and make them re-learn a new technique. (Okay - if someone had a used a complete guess technique, I might have showed them a better way.
)I bet if Mark exclusively teaches sketches, they are pretty good at sketches. My students are good at HSI-visualization. Doesn't matter much either way, IMO.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I think it's a no-brainer and requires less division of attention than sticking a hand or pencil over the DG or HSI, but "different strokes." I guess you do need to have a mind that visualizes spatial relationships for it to work.
I have a lousy memory, so I write down the holding clearance - using a graphic shorthand instead of words.
This is "Hold southwest of the XYZ VOR on the 220 degree radial. Maintain 8000 feet. Expect further clearance at 0000Z"
The airplane is coming from the northwest.
"I have a holding clearance" gets the circle representing the navaid.
"Hold southwest" gets the line in the southwest quadrant.
"on the 220 degree radial." gets the # 220
"Maintain 8000 feet." is the line with the 8 over it
"Expect further clearance at 0000Z" gets the 0000.
My problem was that I had two CFIIs giving me different "do this with the DG" tricks, each insisting that his was the best. Both became useless because I could never keep them straight. This graphic shorthand became the answer for me.
BTW, Ian, I don't exclusively teach sketches. The sketch is an outgrowth of the way I teach holding patterns on the ground. But if it doesn't work for the student, I go with one of the other shortcuts.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
I don't have a problems with holds at this stage in my career... I can just "see" them now when I get the clearance.
"I have a holding clearance" gets the circle representing the navaid.
"Hold southwest" gets the line in the southwest quadrant.
"on the 220 degree radial." gets the # 220
"Maintain 8000 feet." is the line with the 8 over it
"Expect further clearance at 0000Z" gets the 0000.
But... I really wish you had been my instructor when I was first learning them... I never did do well with the whole "thumb" thing! I love your way... makes sense... it's easy to understand... and... it's simple.
Bob
milski
Well-Known Member
And that's a parallel entry, right?
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
That is correct sir...
Although... as we all know... these hold entries are just "suggested" entries. If you wanted to do a hard turn to the right upon crossing the fix and do a Teardrop... then more power to you. Yes... a parrallel is more comfortable and easier from that approach end... but no controller is going to have a fit becasue you performed the wrong hold entry. He/she just wants to know when you've officially "entered" the hold.
Bob
Although... as we all know... these hold entries are just "suggested" entries. If you wanted to do a hard turn to the right upon crossing the fix and do a Teardrop... then more power to you. Yes... a parrallel is more comfortable and easier from that approach end... but no controller is going to have a fit becasue you performed the wrong hold entry. He/she just wants to know when you've officially "entered" the hold.
Bob
jrh
Well-Known Member
I think that right there is a bigger problem than trying to learn a particular method for something.
I have ways that I prefer to do things, and ways that I prefer to teach things, but it's a rare occasion for me to declare one way in particular as "the best." There are so many different ways to skin a cat it's not even funny.
Whatever works best for a given student is the best. When I pick up students from other instructors, unless it's a true safety issue, I usually let them keep doing whatever they've been doing. I offer suggestions that I think might help, but it's rare for me to say, "You have to do it this way, this way is best."
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yep. Although I did forget one thing that's in the drawing that I forgot to mention in the clearance. Without it, the drawing is wrong.
"Left turns"
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
I think you're right. The initial ground that I do starts with "forget the AIM diagram." I explain the three types of entries that suggests that they represent the most sensible ways of entering a hold without a lot of rigmarole. I draw a hold and show why they work.
Then I draw a new hold and put the airplane at various points and ask which method the student would use to enter it. The appropriate entry almost always gets chosen.
BTW, I apologize for calling the thumb a "crutch." It's not. It's one of a number of techniques. I think I referred to it that way because of my own bad experience with something similar (Champcar's pencil method as a matter of fact) and I've seen it used so often as a way of avoiding understanding the hold rather than as an aid to ti.
exleardriver
Well-Known Member
holding in the 'real world' is not something i had to do very often flying lears in cargo, charter and air ambo ops..fewer than a half dozen in 7 years of that...you guys who get in with regionals, flying routes into busy airports may sometimes find yourselves getting stacked.
direct entry is self-explanatory. for a standard, if i'm entering from the opposite side of the holding course, use the entry that requires the least change of heading. the parallel sector is the parallel one because you'd have to turn left an additional 30 degrees to make it a teardrop entry if you examine it from that perspective. often, the teardrop requires almost no change in heading to fly the entry. this would be easier to illustrate on a chalkboard or diagram.
direct entry is self-explanatory. for a standard, if i'm entering from the opposite side of the holding course, use the entry that requires the least change of heading. the parallel sector is the parallel one because you'd have to turn left an additional 30 degrees to make it a teardrop entry if you examine it from that perspective. often, the teardrop requires almost no change in heading to fly the entry. this would be easier to illustrate on a chalkboard or diagram.