Hold-in-lieu of PT

[wayne09]

The holding fix is the IAF. ATC gave me the clearance: "Maintain XXX until established on a segment of a published approach, cleared for the approach". Question is when can I start the descend. When are you considered "established on a segment of the approach".

As soon as I cross the IAF am I considered established ? or after completing the hold entry turning inbound. Found this in AIM:

5-4-9 "The holding pattern maneuver is completed when the aircraft is established on the inbound course after executing the appropriate entry".

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

The AIM paragraph you quote deals with the question that's sometimes asked about whether you have to go round and round in the hold. You're not. You cross the fix, go outbound and when you are inbound, you are done and can continue the approach straight when you reach the FAF.

The answer to the question you are asking is actually simpler if you keep in mind that a HILO is really no different than any other PT except for the shape - you are established on a segment of the approach when you are on a segment of the approach that is, well, published. If the PT authorizes an outbound altitude lower than the one you crossed the fix at, you may descend outbound.

This is usually pretty clear from the approach chart. Just like barbed PTs, the chart with a HILO will show the appropriate altitude to use.

I'm trying to picture what might be confusing. Did you have a specific one in mind or are you just imagining one that may or may not exist?

Here's an example. It's the PUB RNAV 26R.
http://tiles.skyvector.com/sky/files/tpp/1202/pdf/00334R26R.PDF
Assume you are cleared to HELER (in circumstances where you would do the PT) and instructed to maintain 8000 until established on a segment of the approach. Can you see from the chart that you can descend to 7000 once outbound in the HILO?

 

[Matt13C]

So you wouldnt begin down once you crossed HELER the first time? Isnt that when you are established on the approach, when you first cross the IAF? Or does the segment need to be depicted? If instead of a HILO, there was a PT depicted at HELER, then you could begin your descent when outboud on the PT, but not when doing a PT to establish yourself in the HILO? Say for example you wre coming from MERTZ at 8000, you would need to cross HELER, PT cross HELER again and then begin your descent when turning outbound in the HILO?

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

So you wouldnt begin down once you crossed HELER the first time?

Of course you would. That's what the chart says.

Say for example you wre coming from MERTZ at 8000, you would need to cross HELER, PT cross HELER again and then begin your descent when turning outbound in the HILO?

Huh? When you cross HELER the first time you're outbound in the PT. Why do you want to go outbound a second time?

To repeat:

The answer to the question you are asking is actually simpler if you keep in mind that a HILO is really no different than any other PT except for the shape

You're complicating something pretty simple.

 

[Matt13C]

You're complicating something pretty simple.

Yeah I tend to do that. I was just trying to understand why they have a HILO instead of a PT. The three IAF's have NoPT so the HILO is not needed and if you were coming back from the missed direct HELER you would need to PT to enter the hold. Since the HILO is depicted would you then have to do a lap around the hold or can you proceed inbound and land skipping the lap?

Its been a while since I have flown and my instrument knowledge stuff has suffered.