High Performance Sign-off

Curtis_Hancock

New Member
Can the high performance endorsement required by FAR part 61.31(f) be accomplished in an aircraft with an engine less than 200 HP? I have experience with one school that gives the endorsement using a Piper Super Cub with a 150 HP engine, saying that the weight to power ratio, and the method in which they conduct the training allows them to use the aircraft as a "Flight Training Device" which is noted in the regulation I mentioned above. I am not sure about this and would like some clarification before proceding further.
 

triplec76

Well-Known Member
I would say no, but I'm not 100% sure. The regs say you need the instruction in an aircraft that is high performance, which is defined as one with more than 200HP. Alternatively, you can be signed off in a training device representative as such. I would think this training device would also have to be a computerized version of a high performance (more than 200HP) aircraft. Maybe there was some wording I missed or didn't understand, but I don't think so.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
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Can the high performance endorsement required by FAR part 61.31(f) be accomplished in an aircraft with an engine less than 200 HP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not.


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I have experience with one school that gives the endorsement using a Piper Super Cub with a 150 HP engine

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They are off their rocker.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
I would have to say No. There is no provision qualifying airplanes with high thrust to weight ratios as high performance airplanes in CFR 61.3(f). The airplane must have more than 200 horsepower to be considered High Performance.
 

Michigan_Flyer

Well-Known Member
A "flight school" that gives out high performance endorsments in a Piper Cub? Are they smoking crack? Maybe I could start giving out multi engine ratings in our school's Cessna 150. After all, it has an engine up front, plus an electric flap motor, and a starter motor!!
 

Michigan_Flyer

Well-Known Member
I have PIC time in a 200 horsepower Piper Arrow, and I do still do not have a high performance endorsment, because you need OVER 200 horsepower (201 horsepower).
 

Curtis_Hancock

New Member
I would agree with all of you. This is what I thought, but there have been many students that have received this endorsement and logged solo time in high performance aircraft afterwards at the school and elsewhere, even getting hired flying high performance aircraft. I have asked them about it and they say that they believe that it is legal. I have emailed the FAA and AOPA about this too, and when I get a reply from them I will take their reply to this school and see what they have to say. Thanks for all your replies.
 

Curtis_Hancock

New Member
Does anyone know what would be the consequences of this practice to both the school and the students if the FAA found out about it?
 

Redbirdfan

New Member
If the FAA ever shows up at an accident or incident and a pilot from that school has his / her logbook inspected, it won't be a good scene. As for what kind of penalties are involved, I'm not sure. What I am absolutely sure about is they aren't handing out legal sign offs.
 

triplec76

Well-Known Member
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Does anyone know what would be the consequences of this practice to both the school and the students if the FAA found out about it?

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If you did email the FAA already as you had stated, they will know about it soon enough. That is if you put your name or town in the email somewhere or for some reason listed the FBO's name. I am sure if they can figure out a way to do it, they will be checking into it.
 

Curtis_Hancock

New Member
I did not give the school name or location, and the school is not in my state. I sent it using a form on the faa website and did give my name and email address for reply purposes.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
All of the endorsements given will probably be rendered invalid. I don't know if the FAA would hand out violations to individuals who used that HP signoff to rent true HP aircraft or not, but they probably could. If the school is under 141, they'd probably lose their certification. If they are 61, I don't know what would happen, but I would hope that they would get some kind of violation.
 
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