Here's an acronym, you tell me a way to remember

JaceTheAce

JaceTheAce

Well-Known Member
"TMBFR"

It's the emergency decent checklist (memorization item) for the Piper Warrior. I can do the emergency checklist as an action, but can't seem write it down in the right order when tested on paper for some reason...

Any creative memorization methods such as "S--- Man There's a F---in' Fire" (which is for Engine Fire on Startup: Starter keep cranking, Mixture cut, Throttle full open, Fuel pump off, Fuel selector off)?

Throttle idle
Mixture Rich
Bank 30-45 degrees
Fuel Pump On
Rollout upon 126 knots
 
JaceTheAce said:
"TMBFR"

It's the emergency decent checklist (memorization item) for the Piper Warrior. I can do the emergency checklist as an action, but can't seem write it down in the right order when tested on paper for some reason...

Any creative memorization methods such as "S--- Man There's a F---in' Fire" (which is for Engine Fire on Startup: Starter keep cranking, Mixture cut, Throttle full open, Fuel pump off, Fuel selector off)?

Throttle idle
Mixture Rich
Bank 30-45 degrees
Fuel Pump On
Rollout upon 126 knots
Click to expand...

emerg, descent (must get down)
down on a knee (proprose)

The
Man
Bought
Five
Rings

I know, stupid, but what the hey it fits the pattern.
 
You've found one of the great drawbacks of a mnemonic - it's an attempt to force a series of procedures into an artificial set of letters chosen so that it results in a word or phrase which means nothing that's related to the action you are trying to accomplish.

Look at you! Trying to figure out what a mnemonic means rather than what the procedure is.

Hmmm. Emergency Descent. Idea is to get down as quickly as possible without overstressing the airplane, right? I wonder how we do that? I know! Point the nose down and give it full throttle! Nope. That won't work. Going over redline and then pulling up quickly to level off doesn't sound like a very good idea.

Get down quickly. Get down quickly. I got it! Power to idle! Now, =every time= I pull power to idle in a low wing Piper single, what do I do? Ah yes! Turn on the auxiliary fuel pump! And I enrichen the mixture!

Now, what do I do at the end of the procedure? Crash into the ground? Doesn't sound right. May I should level off, roll out and return to straight and level flight. Sounds good.

Sorry, but if you need a mnemonic for those three steps of the procedure - reduce power to idle, do whatever you always do when reducing power below certain level, and return to normal flight at the end - turn in your certificate!

So there's only -one- thing to learn for the emergency descent that you haven't done 100 times before - that the procedure calls for a bank steep bank at the beginning.

And if you don't know =why= the procedure calls for it, then your instructors are doing a bigger disservice to you than forcing you to memorize that idiotic mnemonic.

ACRONYM: Abbreviated Craziness - Remebering it Obviously Numbs Your Mind!

BTW, this was =not= attack on you. It's not your fault if your instructors are teaching nonsense.
 
So there's only -one- thing to learn for the emergency descent that you haven't done 100 times before - that the procedure calls for a bank steep bank at the beginning.

And if you don't know =why= the procedure calls for it, then your instructors are doing a bigger disservice to you than forcing you to memorize that idiotic mnemonic.
Click to expand...

If I reckon a guess that it's so you can see whats below you before you shoot on down, would I be right or wrong?




-Perpetual
 
JaceTheAce said:
"TMBFR"
Click to expand...

Too many boneheads find religion
The mayor's big fund raiser
Too many beers? Fried Rice!


Just make it something absurd and you're bound to remember it easier. If you wanted to make some sort of logical one, the "find religion" one would make a little sense because in an emergency, there are no atheists.
 
perpetual said:
If I reckon a guess that it's so you can see whats below you before you shoot on down, would I be right or wrong?
Click to expand...
The bank "unloads" the wings/allows you to put in a high rate of descent without placing a high negative load on the wings. You can descend much faster because part of your lift is working on the bank instead of keeping the plane up.

I agree completely on the mnemonics. With things like "tomato flames," I find that I end up spending way too much brain power trying to remember how each piece fits into the stupid acronym (is "a" altimer or attitude indicator???). It is easier just to memorize the damn list the night before an exam.

MF
 
Do you know all that's required to memorize on the MD-88/90?

Limitations (ie: Maximum zero fuel weight: 118,000 (88) and 130,000 (90))

And basic procedures like cabin depressurization ("Oxygen masks on 100%, establish communications").
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
You've found one of the great drawbacks of a mnemonic - it's an attempt to force a series of procedures into an artificial set of letters chosen so that it results in a word or phrase which means nothing that's related to the action you are trying to accomplish.

Look at you! Trying to figure out what a mnemonic means rather than what the procedure is.

Hmmm. Emergency Descent. Idea is to get down as quickly as possible without overstressing the airplane, right? I wonder how we do that? I know! Point the nose down and give it full throttle! Nope. That won't work. Going over redline and then pulling up quickly to level off doesn't sound like a very good idea.

Get down quickly. Get down quickly. I got it! Power to idle! Now, =every time= I pull power to idle in a low wing Piper single, what do I do? Ah yes! Turn on the auxiliary fuel pump! And I enrichen the mixture!

Now, what do I do at the end of the procedure? Crash into the ground? Doesn't sound right. May I should level off, roll out and return to straight and level flight. Sounds good.

Sorry, but if you need a mnemonic for those three steps of the procedure - reduce power to idle, do whatever you always do when reducing power below certain level, and return to normal flight at the end - turn in your certificate!

So there's only -one- thing to learn for the emergency descent that you haven't done 100 times before - that the procedure calls for a bank steep bank at the beginning.

And if you don't know =why= the procedure calls for it, then your instructors are doing a bigger disservice to you than forcing you to memorize that idiotic mnemonic.

ACRONYM: Abbreviated Craziness - Remebering it Obviously Numbs Your Mind!

BTW, this was =not= attack on you. It's not your fault if your instructors are teaching nonsense.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: Acronyms are only good for tests. In real emergencies it's all about the actual procedure, not the acronym, especially when time is of the esence.
 
The bank "unloads" the wings/allows you to put in a high rate of
descent without placing a high negative load on the wings. You can descend
much faster because part of your lift is working on the bank instead of
keeping the plane up.
Click to expand...

So what your talking about is basically the vertical component of lift being
reduced and then the resulting loss of altitude, right?

While you're doing this, you're not applying any sort of back pressure (if any)
until the nose reaches your desired nose down angle (in relation to the
horizon).

You then roll wings level (in relation to the horizon) again for rate of decent
reduction and, if you've set your predetermined nose down trim setting for
the resulting diving speed, you'll just continue downward at that angle at x
speed until the drag equilibrium occurs, right?

I guess it would also be a good idea to make sure that people aren't rolling
and pulling at the same time in any excessive speed dives in order to avoid
any rolling G, torque effects on the plane.

Oh.. And I agree that mnemonics are pretty much a waste of time if you
actually know the material. It seems as if learning things with that method, is
basically the same as rote memory. It's better to have the entire picture of
what relates to what, why, and how for true learning and use.

-Perpetual
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
And if you don't know =why= the procedure calls for it, then your instructors are doing a bigger disservice to you than forcing you to memorize that idiotic mnemonic.

ACRONYM: Abbreviated Craziness - Remebering it Obviously Numbs Your Mind!

BTW, this was =not= attack on you. It's not your fault if your instructors are teaching nonsense.
Click to expand...


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! Well said. Mnemonics are one of my pet peaves, it truly is unprofessional.

Jim
 
Minnesota_Flyer said:
The bank "unloads" the wings/allows you to put in a high rate of descent without placing a high negative load on the wings. You can descend much faster because part of your lift is working on the bank instead of keeping the plane up.
Click to expand...
The bank does not unload the wings. Pushing the yoke forward would unload the wings Bank directs a component of the wing load in the horizontal plane, and decreases the component of lift that works in the vertical plane to oppose gravity. As you said, reducing the vertical component of lift results in a descent.




OH yeah, the thread topic. What's the purpose of this mnemonic? IS it to recall each step, or to recall a specific order? If you already know the steps, but get the order wrong, perhaps a single word, or two words could help. TriM BeFoRe contains all the steps in order and is easier to remember than Tom's Mother's Boyfriend Fed Rats or Tim's Mom Bought Five Razors. :)




.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Sorry, but if you need a mnemonic for those three steps of the procedure - reduce power to idle, do whatever you always do when reducing power below certain level, and return to normal flight at the end - turn in your certificate!
Click to expand...

JaceTheAce said:
I can do the emergency checklist as an action, but can't seem write it down in the right order when tested on paper for some reason
Click to expand...


He knows the procedure. It's writing it as it appears EXACTLY in some other form (checklist, SOP's, etc.) that needs to be done for a test. Before you jump up and down about "you shouldn't have to memorize something verbatium as long as you can get it done" (which I agree with), I will explain how I did it in training at a regional. While going through training, we needed to memorize the procedures WORD FOR WORD, so I understand why his school wants him to memorize it verbatium (sp?) as well. They want to prepare their students for how its done later on in life...(that's a different argument all together however!).

For example - we all knew what to do and what button to press for a cargo fire, but just knowing to push the cargo fire extinguishers wasn't good enough - we had to recite "NORMAL and STANBY cargo FIREX bottles ----- Push to discharge" (along with a few more steps). Again, word for word, no exceptions. That is what JaceTheAce is having trouble with...(I believe, anyway).

~wheelsup
 
wheelsup said:
He knows the procedure. It's writing it as it appears EXACTLY in some other form (checklist, SOP's, etc.) that needs to be done for a test. Before you jump up and down about "you shouldn't have to memorize something verbatium as long as you can get it done" (which I agree with), I will explain how I did it in training at a regional. While going through training, we needed to memorize the procedures WORD FOR WORD, so I understand why his school wants him to memorize it verbatium (sp?) as well. They want to prepare their students for how its done later on in life...(that's a different argument all together however!).

For example - we all knew what to do and what button to press for a cargo fire, but just knowing to push the cargo fire extinguishers wasn't good enough - we had to recite "NORMAL and STANBY cargo FIREX bottles ----- Push to discharge" (along with a few more steps). Again, word for word, no exceptions. That is what JaceTheAce is having trouble with...(I believe, anyway).

~wheelsup
Click to expand...
Yes that is exactly it. I can do the action no problem. Many of my training flights involve emergency decent simulation. I can do the checklist as an action, but sometimes when I am sitting down throwing it onto pen and paper I get mixed up with the order. I can't even visualize the panel in front of me along with the actions involved with the checklist flow pattern, but I can visualize all the other emergency flow patterns and put them on paper no problem (wierd huh?).

I merely wanted a simple way to memorize it to verify my answer. It HAS to be the correct answer and correct order or else you'll fail the stage check.
 
Also, UND does not teach mnemonic's when in the aircraft performing the emergency checklists. It's a flowpattern that has to be done almost automatically with minimal thinking. Adding a mnemonic into the picture adds stress and requirement to think too much, disabling the pilot from actually carrying out the procedure quick enough.

Mnemonic's are great for written tests though!
 
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