Help teaching Chinese

bc2209

bc2209

Well-Known Member
So far after 3 months on the job it's been crazy.

I'm finally settling in with the occasional hiccup here and there.

The flights overall are going well and I don't have many issues there. However, I'm struggling to effectively teach my students the oral.

So far I have taught them in a group setting on multiple occasions. We also do one on one sessions. I also give them study guides to go over.

Something is not connecting because they aren't progressing as far as they should be by now.

The language barrier is killing me. Their English skills are weak and it is becoming very difficult.

Anyone out there had past experience or current that could lend a hand with some tips or tricks?

Thanks guys
 
Use smaller words and more hand motions? Use models and pictures for everything. If there is a word you have to get across like telling them to be more "assertive" on the controls then type that word into google and translate to chinese, that usually helps.

Don't assign reading as homework, they're not going to do it.
 
Have you asked other instructors you work with that have similar students? Are you at TransPac?
 
Many years ago, while attending the U.S. Army Instrument Flight Examiners course, the other student I was flying with was in the South Korean Army. He was an excellent pilot, knew the regs and procedures well, but his English wasn't great. Okay for general conversation, but not all that good in terms of being a flight examiner.

Our instructor came up with the idea of asking him questions, and having him speak the answer in his native language first. He could then converse more clearly in English. Worked like a charm for him.
 
ghogue said:
Many years ago, while attending the U.S. Army Instrument Flight Examiners course, the other student I was flying with was in the South Korean Army. He was an excellent pilot, knew the regs and procedures well, but his English wasn't great. Okay for general conversation, but not all that good in terms of being a flight examiner.

Our instructor came up with the idea of asking him questions, and having him speak the answer in his native language first. He could then converse more clearly in English. Worked like a charm for him.
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That is an outstanding idea!
 
Be careful to use exact language. For example, if you say something is "hard" to do they would not really understand that you mean "difficult" because hard translates as in "hard" surface, no difficult. There are lot of other examples, that is just one. Also be careful of Americanisms and idioms that don't really translate well.

You probably know that, but just thought to throw it out there.


TP
 
ghogue said:
Many years ago, while attending the U.S. Army Instrument Flight Examiners course, the other student I was flying with was in the South Korean Army. He was an excellent pilot, knew the regs and procedures well, but his English wasn't great. Okay for general conversation, but not all that good in terms of being a flight examiner.

Our instructor came up with the idea of asking him questions, and having him speak the answer in his native language first. He could then converse more clearly in English. Worked like a charm for him.
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Great idea thank you
 
gotWXdagain said:
I would suggest that you should assign reading as homework and include a worksheet assignment to guide them through the reading. If they show up without it done, collect your no-show charge and enjoy your People's Republic of China-sponsored two hour tour of the CFI break room.
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I like the worksheet idea but don't encourage the no show fees as if you'd rather no show then go flying. You quickly become the • of the flight school and half the students will make sure they never fly with you.

Plus that no show fee could easily be petitioned and then you look even worse. Encourage them to learn.
 
So I have around 800 dual given with the Chinese. What would you like to know?

With the oral, I haven't really had any issues with them on teaching or evaluating the oral on technical knowledge. The biggest thing leading up to it is homework. Make sure you assign specific questions to answers, pages to read, and follow up with quizzing. Their culture tends to be A, then B, then C based. Where we're more, A, figure out where B is, how to solve B, get B, then determine if you need C. As such, most of the issues and unsats came from ADM. I would probably spend a good half of the time during briefings and orals focusing on developing ADM. Most are excellent at practice practice practice.

So, an example, emergency off airport landings:

Step 1: Teach on the ground the basics of selecting a ditch location, evaluating if it's safe at a few points (say 3000 AGL, 2000 AGL, 1000AGL, Pattern Entry, Approach), and when to break off. Cover at least 3 ways to join the pattern and stress being able to cut them short or modify it as needed. Really stress that go with one and making it sloppy is IDEAL. They really want to do it by the book every time. Since wind, thermals, sight lines, and everything changes, you need to stress being able to change and that's it's what everyone else does.
Step 2: Do that about 3-5 times at the same place to the same place.
Step 3: Do that at the same place at different altitudes, 2x.
Step 4: Do that at random altitudes and random places about 5x.

Step 5: Make sure you play the what if game about a hundred times on the ground. Encourage them to be daring, and assertive. Make them happy to be the captain.

Step 6: ?

Step 7: Profit with a pass.

The idea with everything is to give them the rote knowledge and ensure they have it. Then you have to build on changes rather quickly and make them comfortable and assertive with them. Then really step back and MAKE THEM be the pilot in command. They tend to resist sticking out. Honestly I forget since it's been 5 years, but they had a phrase similar to the nail sticking out gets hammered. I reminded them the the nail sticking out supports pictures, doors, lights, and things I need. If it's strong enough the hammer will bounce off. Be strong enough to be a strong hammer and be the captain, not a passenger.

Also, I may have brought up Air China 006 a few times. It might be mean, but it stuck as a moment of shame that you can't always stand in line to get things done. You need strong ADM to decide when to be assertive and when to be helpful. For now, be the best PIC, so you know how to be the best SIC.

Good Luck
 
tcco94 said:
I like the worksheet idea but don't encourage the no show fees as if you'd rather no show then go flying. You quickly become the of the flight school and half the students will make sure they never fly with you.

Plus that no show fee could easily be petitioned and then you look even worse. Encourage them to learn.
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Never once had a no-show called back that I wasn't the one calling it back. Furthermore, the pervasive attitude among students (of all backgrounds) at the school I was at for the last couple of years I was there was that flight training is just going through motions and the CFI is there because they need to be. Wrong answer, we don't drag our students through training courses, we mentor their own learning. If they don't do the work, they don't do the lesson.
 
Did you guys go right into instructing foreign pilots as your first CFI jobs? I just can't imagine trying to find my stride as new CFI amidst the communication and cultural barriers without the school firing me.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Never once had a no-show called back that I wasn't the one calling it back. Furthermore, the pervasive attitude among students (of all backgrounds) at the school I was at for the last couple of years I was there was that flight training is just going through motions and the CFI is there because they need to be. Wrong answer, we don't drag our students through training courses, we mentor their own learning. If they don't do the work, they don't do the lesson.
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And maybe I had taken your first answer in the wrong way or wrong tone. I completely agree with that. To some degree a no-show fee is a good way to teach a student, I agree with that. I just have seen instructors and heard them talk where they would rather no-show a student (such as one they didn't like) rather than encourage them in a positive way. If you come to a student in that tone looking out to get someone then you've already started on the wrong foot. I can see your point now and I agree, I would like to be a CFI that mentors...not just sitting there making a student do all the work.

My no-show charge fee was for not completing our emergency procedures verbatim. I was pretty pissed but accepted the punishment at my failure to study. Needless to say $90 is what it cost me to learn my lesson. The school did end up changing the rule because of all the various types of aircraft now it's ballpark verbatim but while I attended I knew it had to be spot on letter for letter. I just know many students who have gone through training and get together with the wrong CFI and it dis-encouraged them so much that they've never gone back. I feel awful for those people because they had a poor CFI....but students must do their homework. Spoon feeding on orals is not okay and I only understood that after I completed all my training.
 
tcco94 said:
And maybe I had taken your first answer in the wrong way or wrong tone. I completely agree with that. To some degree a no-show fee is a good way to teach a student, I agree with that. I just have seen instructors and heard them talk where they would rather no-show a student (such as one they didn't like) rather than encourage them in a positive way. If you come to a student in that tone looking out to get someone then you've already started on the wrong foot. I can see your point now and I agree, I would like to be a CFI that mentors...not just sitting there making a student do all the work.

My no-show charge fee was for not completing our emergency procedures verbatim. I was pretty pissed but accepted the punishment at my failure to study. Needless to say $90 is what it cost me to learn my lesson. The school did end up changing the rule because of all the various types of aircraft now it's ballpark verbatim but while I attended I knew it had to be spot on letter for letter. I just know many students who have gone through training and get together with the wrong CFI and it dis-encouraged them so much that they've never gone back. I feel awful for those people because they had a poor CFI....but students must do their homework. Spoon feeding on orals is not okay and I only understood that after I completed all my training.
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I learned to be up front with my students about my expectations and my billing policies because as a newbie CFI I didn't really realize when people were just trying to skate by on bare minimum. Also, when I was a less experienced instructor I did alot of "spoon feeding" and my ground lessons especially were long, boring, and not particularly productive. When I realized that it was better for the student to come with the material already mostly learned by doing guided self-study, all we did in the ground lessons was fill in the holes. Billed time to the student went way down, knowledge level went up. Conversely, the students who didn't do the work ended up spending more money. Unfortunately, those students also were the ones complaining about spending more money but if it ever got up to my lead and if my lead called me on it, It was very easy to show them that the student knew the expectations from the first day and failed to meet them and that's why they were spending more money. Flight training is very much a "you get what you pay for" experience, although payment isn't always in the form of dollars. In fact, if you pay more time, you end up spending less dollars. Much less.
 
Assign reading and ask lots of questions that assess if they did the reading and actually understand it. If you just ask them if they understand, they will always say yes and will never ask for help in my experience.

Make sure as others have said to check how you phrase things. One thing I didn't realize that I did was to ask "How come..." when asking a question. ESL students get thoroughly confused with things like that.

Don't let them use the word okay either. If you tell them to study a topic, I have had many respond with okay when they had no idea what I had just said.

Tower: Cleared to land 27R

Student: Uuhhh, OKAY!

Tower: I need the callsign with runway, xx, cleared to land 27R.

Student: Uuhhh, OKAY!

Tower: *FACEPALM*
 
JMK said:
Did you guys go right into instructing foreign pilots as your first CFI jobs? I just can't imagine trying to find my stride as new CFI amidst the communication and cultural barriers without the school firing me.
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Well, we all did, and it was a steep learning curve. I just had dinner with a number of alumni, and they also mentioned how we all worked with the Chinese. We all had to learn quickly, and we all made a large number of mistakes doing that. However, that is how all CFI's learn. Ours just tended to be more challenging.

WS said:
Assign reading and ask lots of questions that assess if they did the reading and actually understand it. If you just ask them if they understand, they will always say yes and will never ask for help in my experience.

Make sure as others have said to check how you phrase things. One thing I didn't realize that I did was to ask "How come..." when asking a question. ESL students get thoroughly confused with things like that.

Don't let them use the word okay either. If you tell them to study a topic, I have had many respond with okay when they had no idea what I had just said.

Tower: Cleared to land 27R

Student: Uuhhh, OKAY!

Tower: I need the callsign with runway, xx, cleared to land 27R.

Student: Uuhhh, OKAY!

Tower: *FACEPALM*
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This. They are good at verbatim (rote), without understanding or application knowledge. Radio calls are a great example of that. I drew out an airport on a big piece of paper and took toy airplanes and we practiced situations and radio calls. Took a few times per student to work it out. They caught on though in a non-stressful environment. Do the same with everything, make them explain WHY.
 
typhoonpilot said:
Be careful to use exact language. For example, if you say something is "hard" to do they would not really understand that you mean "difficult" because hard translates as in "hard" surface, no difficult. There are lot of other examples, that is just one. Also be careful of Americanisms and idioms that don't really translate well.

You probably know that, but just thought to throw it out there.


TP
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