HELP! Return my loan balance / American Winds in Akron

bucks4d

bucks4d

Well-Known Member
Taking suggestions. After getting my Instrument rating at American Winds in Akron. I requested they return my remaining loan balance back to Sallie Mae. This was back in February. I wanted to stop the loan because I had just started a full time job and was planning on taking my training a little slower and paying as I go. Well now its almost June I have been paying interest on 30,000. I have written proof in email that the school has spent all of my loan. I have written letters to the BBB and Ohio Attorney General. Sallie Mae's people say they are not responsible and hardly speak english... Under advice of lawyer I may eventually have to go after the school in Civil courts locally on my own dime. If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

have you considered going back and demanding the training you paid for? If nothing else it's a possibility, right?
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

sounds like if you agreed that the money was disbursed to the schoo in one lump, there's little you're going to be able to do to recoup that money. sorry.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

Cut out the middle man.

Get a good lawyer, sue the FBO.

Get your money back, and if they can't pay, then find a way to have the FBO liquidated. Take your payment in Cessna 172's if you have to.

This is called theft in most parts of the country, and I would nail these guys to the wall at all costs.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

Sounds like a job for Carl Monday!! (Our local TV in-your-face-confrontational-problem-solver dude). Hope he brings backup with him....

OP takes out a 30k loan, which they disburse all at once.
He uses say 8k of services, then asks in writing for a refund of the remaining $$.
If they keep money for services not provided, is that not theft? Or is the school free to do whatever they want once they get the money?

Very sorry for your frustration-if only you had checked in with us before you started.....
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

XLR99 said:
Sounds like a job for Carl Monday!! (Our local TV in-your-face-confrontational-problem-solver dude). Hope he brings backup with him....

OP takes out a 30k loan, which they disburse all at once.
He uses say 8k of services, then asks in writing for a refund of the remaining $$.
If they keep money for services not provided, is that not theft? Or is the school free to do whatever they want once they get the money?

Very sorry for your frustration-if only you had checked in with us before you started.....
Click to expand...

While I agree it's theft, companies can steal as much money as they want and little happens in many cases. If I were to steal $22,000 I'd be in pound me in the butt prison. A company steals $22,000? Eh, it happens right?

Sue them. Sue the ever living crap out of them. Then bring criminal charges against them.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

XLR99 said:
Sounds like a job for Carl Monday!! (Our local TV in-your-face-confrontational-problem-solver dude). Hope he brings backup with him....

OP takes out a 30k loan, which they disburse all at once.
He uses say 8k of services, then asks in writing for a refund of the remaining $$.
If they keep money for services not provided, is that not theft? Or is the school free to do whatever they want once they get the money?

Very sorry for your frustration-if only you had checked in with us before you started.....
Click to expand...

It is theft, but if the company goes out of business, there is little that can be done. You could sue and get a writ of execution, but AFAIK, most FBOs have very little solid assets. The airplanes are probably not paid off, the building is probably rented out, and the money is already gone. If they have your 30k, chances are that are insolvent and there are suppliers that are in line ahead of you.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

How does it commonly work with the SLM racket- is there something in the contract that stipulates that the school returns unused funds?
To the OP-you talked to the atty general-have you contacted the Akron PD yet? They may be interested based on some past events..
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

What's the background on the school? Long established operation or new? If long established, you may be able to find a resolution w/ only a letter from an attorney. The threat of a lawsuit (that neither of you could afford) may be enough for them to at least try to make it right.

If they've already spent the money, then at best, you may have to settle for some other form of equity.

Good luck.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

Yup.

Only choice is court.

Get your remaining money back, in some form (physical assets or cash), and legal fees.

Good luck.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

XLR99 said:
How does it commonly work with the SLM racket- is there something in the contract that stipulates that the school returns unused funds?
To the OP-you talked to the atty general-have you contacted the Akron PD yet? They may be interested based on some past events..
Click to expand...

Indeed they may be interested. Don't forget about the owner being a mayor of a little town as well.

escapepilot said:
What's the background on the school? Long established operation or new? If long established, you may be able to find a resolution w/ only a letter from an attorney. The threat of a lawsuit (that neither of you could afford) may be enough for them to at least try to make it right.

If they've already spent the money, then at best, you may have to settle for some other form of equity.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

They have taken people to court and have been taken to court by their employees. Not to mention the owner does have a past record with the Akron PD as stated above. The chief flight instructor has an interesting background which would allow me to guess the aircraft are paid for.

Just do a search for American Winds in Summit County and Portage County Courts, you will see some interesting info on this school.

Them having a record like this will help with you getting your money back.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

When will people learn that they shouldn't pay up front for their training?

Thousands of people have already been through this. The school next door to me is liquidating all of his assets in order to go bankrupt. One the owner has the cash in his accounts it will be difficult to ever recover it.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

Well I didn't pay for the training up front. I have no written agreement with the school. No contract in any form. So technically they have stolen my money according to my lawyer. I met with Akron PD as well and after the detectives met with their lawyers they felt that they couldnt go after the school President and owner with criminal charges because its a fuzzy line with contracts.... or lack of contracts they said.

The loan was paid in three disbursements of 10k. With each flight I got an individual invoice and tracked how much I had spent. Originally my plan was to continue with the school on my commercial. But once I realized what the operation is like I requested the money back.

I think the planes are owned by the school through a different LLC so that is good.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

bucks4d said:
Well I didn't pay for the training up front. I have no written agreement with the school. No contract in any form. So technically they have stolen my money according to my lawyer. I met with Akron PD as well and after the detectives met with their lawyers they felt that they couldnt go after the school President and owner with criminal charges because its a fuzzy line with contracts.... or lack of contracts they said.

The loan was paid in three disbursements of 10k. With each flight I got an individual invoice and tracked how much I had spent. Originally my plan was to continue with the school on my commercial. But once I realized what the operation is like I requested the money back.

I think the planes are owned by the school through a different LLC so that is good.
Click to expand...
You did or you didn't pay up front? If you paid them more money than what you had spent with them in flight training, then you paid up front.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

bucks4d said:
Well I didn't pay for the training up front. I have no written agreement with the school. No contract in any form. So technically they have stolen my money according to my lawyer. I met with Akron PD as well and after the detectives met with their lawyers they felt that they couldnt go after the school President and owner with criminal charges because its a fuzzy line with contracts.... or lack of contracts they said.

The loan was paid in three disbursements of 10k. With each flight I got an individual invoice and tracked how much I had spent. Originally my plan was to continue with the school on my commercial. But once I realized what the operation is like I requested the money back.

I think the planes are owned by the school through a different LLC so that is good.
Click to expand...

If they didn't have a Sallie Mae approved contract, then they are in big trouble. Part of the Sallie Mae certification process is/was to have a student contract in place so this doesn't happen. I would contact Sallie Mae and tell them that the school illegally accepted those funds without having a written agreement between you and the school. If Sallie Mae knew that they did not have a contract per Sallie Mae rules and still released the funds, then Sallie Mae is also going to be in trouble.
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

Most lawyers will not charge for an initial consult. I am also wondering if you may have a 93A claim which is a deceptive business practices claim and entitles you to triple damages. Of course this would be a question for the folks that do this sort of thing for a living. Best of luck - always hate to hear these kinds of stories...
 
Re: HELP! Return my loan balance

Edit: On second thought, nevermind. The internet isn't anonymous enough for what I want to say about that place and the clowns who run it. My very limited experience with them as a very part-time CFI for a very short time was 5-6 years ago anyways. I hope you get your money back.
 
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