Heavy 172 takeoff from 1,100' grass strip?

[Holocene]

Not sure how heavy this plane was at the time, but with 3 people inside I would guess at least 2400lbs. The rough numbers not accounting for wind or slope are 900' ground roll and 1500' to clear 50' obstacle.

I've been out of flying for some time. Doesn't it seem like this was cutting margins too close, or has anyone successfully taken off in this distance at a similar weight?

NTSB Identification: ERA16FA161
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Monday, April 18, 2016 in Westmoreland, NY
Aircraft: CESSNA 172, registration: N1863Y
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 1 Minor.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

On April 18, 2016, about 1910 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 172C, N1863Y, collided with trees and terrain during takeoff from Sophie's Choice airstrip, Westmoreland, New York. The private pilot and one passenger were fatally injured, while one passenger sustained minor injuries. The airplane was destroyed by a postcrash fire. The airplane was registered to a private individual, and operated under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 91 as a personal flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time and no flight plan was filed. The flight was originating at the time of the occurrence, and was destined for Griffiss International Airport (RME), Rome New York.

Witnesses reported the pilot initiated takeoff to the east from the downsloping grass runway with about 1,130 feet of runway available. The flight became airborne when past the windsock located near the departure end of the runway and continued to the east. While flying past the departure end of the runway, a pilot-rated witness reported seeing the airplane bank to the right, then left and described it as "hanging on the propeller." While in a right bank, the left wing collided with a tree about 30 feet above ground level and the right wing collided with the ground. The airplane came to rest upright about 40 feet past the tree contact location, and a postcrash fire started shortly after the airplane came to rest.

 

[fholbert]

Last and only time I flew a 172 Nixon was president. The 150 scheduled for my first dual cross country was down for maintenance so the instructor put me in the mighty Skyhawk with speed and horse power a high school junior could only dream about. Of course screaming through the sky at 120mph (we didn't do knots in those days) really screwed up the flight planning I'd spent days working on.

For my Comm, Inst and ME I moved to the Piper Flight Center (remember those?) so I could fly the sporty low wingers. The hourly rental rate did change from $12 for a C-150 to $14 for a PA-28-140 and the PA-28 ran on blue gas. No more red gas for me. I was in the big time!

 

[bimmerphile]

Not sure how heavy this plane was at the time, but with 3 people inside I would guess at least 2400lbs. The rough numbers not accounting for wind or slope are 900' ground roll and 1500' to clear 50' obstacle.

I've been out of flying for some time. Doesn't it seem like this was cutting margins too close, or has anyone successfully taken off in this distance at a similar weight?

Hmm. Seems a bit dodgy for sure, especially on turf. You can def get a 172 in to places where you can't get it back out

 

[thevideographer]

Depends on how heavy the 3 people were. At 2400lbs the POH says you need about 1500' to clear a 50' obstacle.

 

[Hammertime]

Most likely poor soft field technique, though that is a very tight field. I've had a Skychicken with myself and a student out of a 1400' strip, and it was tight, but we ran the numbers several times, conservatively, and knew we could do it. There were a couple moments after we lifted off, where the trees (another 1500' or so past the "end" of the grass runway) looked pretty big, but, as I told my student: "we ran the numbers, this will work!" Once we built the speed in ground effect, it climbed just fine. It sounds like this guy didn't allow the speed to build, and therefore didn't have the climb performance.

 

[Fixtur]

I was taught to add 50% to whatever the POH says, and then only with caution. That might be overly conservative for some people around here, but when one considers that POH numbers are best case new-airplane numbers, perhaps fudged to make the airplane seem a little sportier than it is, I find it to be reasonable advice for the cautious pilot.

 

[thevideographer]

I was taught to add 50% to whatever the POH says, and then only with caution. That might be overly conservative for some people around here, but when one considers that POH numbers are best case new-airplane numbers, perhaps fudged to make the airplane seem a little sportier than it is, I find it to be reasonable advice for the cautious pilot.

Are they best case numbers? I don't think I've ever actually taken the full, published takeoff distance to get off of the ground.

^^ not that it's a good idea to takeoff with less and hope for the best.

 

[derg]

How is that "density altitude" today?

 

[NovemberEcho]

Based on my math performance in high school, I double the numbers.

 

[derg]

And do you have an AOA probe? Too soon?

 

[Cptnchia]

I routinely carried 3 adult skydivers plus myself in a 172. No way I'd do that in less than 1500 feet.

 

[derg]

I routinely carried 3 adult skydivers plus myself in a 172. No way I'd do that in less than 1500 feet.

Skydivers by intent or just three very "hyper aware" passengers?

 

[Cptnchia]

Skydivers by intent or just three very "hyper aware" passengers?

By intent. Still, they were "hyper aware" at the same time.

 

[derg]

My intent is… clarity.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

How is that "density altitude" today?

Must be a Riddle west grad if the first thing you think of is Density Altitude.

I often wondered about the caliber of renter in SoCal considering that "high DA airports" required a special checkout.

 

[FM_Weasel]

It was a fatal accident.

The answer to the question "was this too close" is, yes. Yes it was.

 

[derg]

Must be a Riddle west grad if the first thing you think of is Density Altitude.

I often wondered about the caliber of renter in SoCal considering that "high DA airports" required a special checkout.

Of course!

It's like diabeetus. The silent killer. Check your density altitude. Check it owf'tun.

 

[mshunter]

Must be a Riddle west grad if the first thing you think of is Density Altitude.

I often wondered about the caliber of renter in SoCal considering that "high DA airports" required a special checkout.

I often wonder the same of renter's who come from flat, low land areas like East of the Rockies.

 

[Richman]

Of course!

It's like diabeetus. The silent killer. Check your density altitude. Check it owf'tun.

According to the FAA, density altitude is "one of the most deceptive phenomenons to plague a pilot."

 

[mrivc211]

Last and only time I flew a 172 Nixon was president. The 150 scheduled for my first dual cross country was down for maintenance so the instructor put me in the mighty Skyhawk with speed and horse power a high school junior could only dream about. Of course screaming through the sky at 120mph (we didn't do knots in those days) really screwed up the flight planning I'd spent days working on.

For my Comm, Inst and ME I moved to the Piper Flight Center (remember those?) so I could fly the sporty low wingers. The hourly rental rate did change from $12 for a C-150 to $14 for a PA-28-140 and the PA-28 ran on blue gas. No more red gas for me. I was in the big time!

Hows the airshow going? I'm thinking about checking it out.