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A little background about myself. I graduated from Oklahoma State University in 2004. I originally started my training at Henderson State University in Arkansas where I received my Private. It was there where I met my now wife of almost 6 years. We moved back (my home) to Oklahoma where I finished my degree and got my Commercial and instrument rating. I got my multi at a place in Dallas .. "multi for 895" deals. Believe it or not.. it did work and I was able to get a bit of multi time in my logbook from a good friend of mine who fly's air ambulance. I have a small bit of C-340 and BE-58 PIC and even a smaller bit of Cheyenne time. I have 2 kids, 5 and 3, and currently live southwest of Pittsburgh PA (my wife's hometown). I'm going into DCA at the second stage. I guess that would be after the VFR and IFR prof. I chose DCA for several reasons: (not in order of most important)
1) To be among others that share the same dream.
2) To be in a place that offers good flying weather (pit sux).
3) Placement opportunity. I am not phased by their glossy ads, but by what I believe to be an excellent opportunity to meet others who can help me achieve my goals as well as the possibility of eventually being able to help others achieve theirs.
a) The placement opportunity at the State University level (my personal experiance only) seemed very poor. Had I finished my CFI at OSU I would have then been pretty much on my own at that point. Yes, if I hung around long enough I may have picked up a few students, and built some time, but where from there? They had no connections with any airlines nor was the training airline oriented. Basically part 61 with a 141 syllabus.
4) My wife is a photographer and Central Florida seems to have an abundance of opportunity for her to start a career and have dreams of her own.
5) Yes, the Delta Pass benefits as a CFI. With my family in OK and my wife's in PA, and having 2 kids which both sets of grandparents love to see as often as possible, I did consider this benefit very important to my family.
6) I am ready to learn. I am very excited to dig deep learn more about aviation (weather, aerodynamics FAR's) than just what I needed to pass the Written and Oral. ie.. part 61 with a 141 syllabus. (I'm not knocking 61) I just want to be the best and have the tools available to build a foundation for a lifelong career as a professional pilot not just for myself, but as a role model for my children.

As far as DCA's glossy ad's well, I do not believe that if I just get there and pay money I will be in that "97%" I believe in myself and that ONLY I will decide if I get the job. I take full responsibility for my attitude and readyness. If I don't study, I won't make it, If I behave poorly I won't make it. I believe this is the concept of any training be it OSU, ERAU, ATP DCA or even to go as far as to say Medical School. Only a few % of those who start Med school complete their residency. Only the ones who stand out and who strive to be the best, no matter the program they are in or the programs advertising department, will be in that 3-5% who make the grade.

I believe DCA gives it's studens practical tools to do the job. Kindof like tightening a 3/4 inch nut with a 3/4 inch wrench.. use the tools, and get it done right.. vs my college flight school background which was similar to tightening a 3/4 inch nut with a pair of channel locks..yes it can be done, and channel locks are considerably less expensive than an entire set of Craftsman wrenches but..

I realize these are probably pretty bold statements considering I have not yet started, but in summary, these are my thoughts, my dreams, and I am going to go for it. I am now approaching the big THREE O and need to take charge mine and my familys' future.

Why DCA over FSI?.. It's here, it's now, it's time, and it's all up to ME.. not to FSI or DCA as to wheather or not I make it. Only I can tighten the nut, and it can be done just as well with a Craftsman OR a Snap-On.
 
Wow, kids 5 and 3! You sound like you will do well at DCA. I hope your wife is very understanding and you have an extremely sound financial plan in place. Not trying to give a sermon, but gambling with yourself is one thing. The kids have to come first, as you know.

There are plenty of people who can 'mentor' you for lack of a better word. Find one at the school, your ambulance friend, an airline pilot, anyone who can help you keep perspective when things get 'challenging.' PM me if you want to talk. I went to DCA (then Comair Academy) and now fly for Comair. Good luck!
 
"Had I finished my CFI at OSU I would have then been pretty much on my own at that point"

What's wrong with that?

Back when I was working my way up, we didn't expect our schools to provide us with connections and employment. You got your training and entered the job market. You worked your way up. It sounds like you think less of OSU because DCA "has the connections".

I say, go out into the world and develop your own connections. At the same time, whatever floats your boat, I'm not knocking your choice, I just disagree with some of your reasons for making the choice and feel it's important to say so for anyone else who might read this.

"I am ready to learn. I am very excited to dig deep learn more about aviation (weather, aerodynamics FAR's) than just what I needed to pass the Written and Oral. ie.. part 61 with a 141 syllabus. (I'm not knocking 61) I just want to be the best and have the tools available to build a foundation for a lifelong career as a professional pilot"

It's nice that you have such high goals and standards, but I disagree with your thinking that you need to go to a DCA to realize them.

I think responsibility for success in training falls much more on the student than on where he is training at. I also think the real world is a much better educator than any academy. You seem to think your previous non-academy training is somehow lacking and going to DCA will give you the tools to fix that. I really believe you can learn what you need to learn to be a capable pilot from home study and part 61 training. Then, you take that knowledge out and apply it. Even UPS doesn't have a formal systems ground school for the 757/767, it's all self paced on a computer. So, I don't the big academy enviornment, or formal ground school, is necessary to create a good pilot. You won't be any worse for doing it but I think a person is making a mistake if they think the big academy is going to make them into a better pilot.

"I believe DCA gives it's studens practical tools to do the job. Kindof like tightening a 3/4 inch nut with a 3/4 inch wrench.. use the tools, and get it done right.. "

I'd like to see H46Bubba's comments on that one. What comes to mind was the post a while back when a DCA guy taxied within 50 feet, or whatever it was, of a fuel truck and what a big deal was made out of it. If this is an indication of the bureaucracy and attitude of DCA's training, I think they are overdoing it. They need to relax a little and lose the uniforms.

Does the program you are in give you a guaranteed interview after you instruct at DCA for 800 hours?
 
Hahaha.. I didn't see that one!..
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.. I started typing this huge long reason to defend my reasons but it almost seemed like defending my carnivourous (sp) ways to a vegetarian. I totally agree with you in most every way.. DCA and $40,000 are not the only way to get into the cockpit of a CRJ and a person gets from a program only what that individual puts into it. I do not EXPECT DCA to just give me an interview. I do believe their program works, and works well. It took me 4 years to get through OSU and believe it or not there were about 3 flight instructors who were there in 2000 when I started and still there in 2004 when I left. There were a few that got picked up by Great Lakes or Pinnacle, but most were still trying to build enough time to get an interview. Then there were some that got hired by COEX that got sent back post 9/11 and were given their seniority back and had most all the students while the newbies were resorting to freelance across the runway. I realize the world of aviation is highly competitive and seniority goes a long way but with the one Dutchess the school owned, which only the senior MEI's got to teach in it, that had to be shared between two of it's university's SWO and TUL it was extremely difficult for any new CFI or MEI to gain any experiance. One thing that impressed me about DCA was the number of Multi-engine airplanes on the ramp and at any given time during the tour I saw atleast 2 that were active.

When I took my commercial checkride my CFI gave me a three page Word document that had all the questions the examiner would ask. Sure enough, that was it.. he popped one in about scuba diving at the end of the oral "just to see if I had studied". Great, I passed my checkride but did I really know anything? Yes, I had studied but I had not been pushed to think for myself. You will probably combat this statement by saying something like I should push myself and should not rely on any university or academy to push for me and you will be right, which I did, but isn't that the purpose of attending a program.. to be taught. Why would somebody attend Harvard Law instead of the University of Tulsa? The end result is the same, a law degree, and using your theory that the school will not make a better professional..my stand on that is that I would bet the TU guys are chasing ambulances and the Harvard guys are defending cases in the Supreme Court. I certainly don't hold DCA to the standard of Harvard but the point is the studens who attended a better school got a better education and better understanding of how the system works.

So I guess I did defend myself a bit
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If DCA stated the guranteed intervew is off, I would still go. I feel that their structured program works and again provides the tools to complete the job. I am not sold on their advertising which I too think is a bit over the top, I am sold on the idea that Comair looks at DCA to provide them with quality pilots.

In closing, sure I could go back to OSU or over to Mom and Pop FBO and maybe in about 3-4 years I could have enough time to get an interview.. (in PIT maybe about 10 due to overcast ceilings and rain about 6 days a week).. or I could go to DCA, get it done, quit taking calls from lousy people who don't pay their utility bills and get shut off (my current job) and start working doing what I love and be a happier person.
 
have fun CFIing there
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[ QUOTE ]
To all DCA employees recent moves by magangement have made us all question our security. The time to organize is now. We must protect ourselves and work together for a better safer work enviorment. Are you aware....

- As a wage employee when you do required work and are not compensated that it violates state and federal labor laws

- That competitive flight schools in Florida offer pay 50% higher on average then DCA. In addition there are benifits packages to include vacation and medical.

- That in the past month 6 flight instructors have been suspended or recomended for termination.

- Why DCA boasts record emrollments and expansion it has "let go" two of its most respected management personnel with no notice.

- Cost of living expenses have increased 36% in central florida in just 5yrs, even though additional costs have been billed to students no compensation has been given to the instructors

- Just one week after telling the maintence team they were not going to recieve their yearly pay increase, the president arrives in a $125,000 mercedes. Somebody got there bonus!

- Our VP of operations has been suspected of falsifying aircraft registration

- The school operates with one DPE who is in constant violation of federal regulations and over flies his availible monthly hours sometimes in two weeks thanks to our scheduling dept.

- Just recently to due demands of aircraft it was suggested at a meeting by management that if an airplane has equipment not working including coms/navs and we don't need it just go anyway. A clear violation of the FAR's

The list is mounting and overwhelming for employees working in this enviorment, Instructors are you tired of....

- trying to put a "positive spin" on the shortfalls of the company so that customers don't have a negative image

- Having a management team that is invisible and incompetant when it comes to meeting the logistical demands of the company. Aircraft shortage and equipment condition has plagued the company for years.

- Not understanding why one wrong for somebody is a termination and the same wrong by someone else is a suspension

- Taking orders or directives from people who lack integrity, respect and have been rejected from other areas of the industry who now make there home at DCA

- Seeing other flight schools advance there programs, update there equipment, reward there employees, and provide a work enviorment which is satisfactory to both customers and employees alike.

- Flying at night in an aircraft with inadequate or no interior lighting at all

- Having senior instructors with 1000+ hours making the same wage as the 200hr new hire?

- Skipping meals, doctor check-ups, car/house/loan payments due to lack of income, when you spend 50+ hrs a week at work.

We can no longer afford to look the other way or just deal with it, we must work together for change. The time has come to demonstrate that no one is stronger than the team! Our safety our well being and our resources will no longer be put in jepordy or abused. Organize today, spread the word, post on websites, please discuss on forums, forming a union is our right as workers and our employement CANNOT be jepordized as a result of it. Pilots organized in the airlines to protect themselves from similar abuses we must now do the same.
The time to act is now.



[/ QUOTE ]
 
I guess you've done your research. I hope you will be satisfied. The DCA instructors from satellite college programs that I talk to say the place is crap and a lot of them regret paying all of the money when they see other instructors making more money at other FBOs/flight schools, flying nicer equipment with less bureaucratic management and having the same end result- flying for a regional. And this is from a satellite location where its 10 times less hectic than in Sanford.
 
The reason I asked about if the program you are in will qualify for the guaranteed interview is that H46, as I understand, changed to different type of program to finish off his CFI and because he did that program, he wasn't gonna get the interview, which I think is chicken shi......crap.

Maybe one of the DCA apologists can come on and explain why that is. But they have been very quiet lately, for some reason.

It's nice to have someone who is gonna go to DCA at Jetcareers. Please keep us informed on how things go and what you think.
 
I guess it's to give my $.02. I'm glad you did your homework and shopped around prior to choosing DCA. You will receive very good traing here. I feel it to each his own when it comes to flight training. I've gone from FBO 61/141, to DCA 141, to DCA 61. So I guess I've pretty much done them all. DCA will give you more than you actually need, but I feel that it was too much. A lot of it will help in the regionals, and a lot is a waste of time and time is money. I guess I've been jaded since becoming an employee and see behind the curtain as you will. Don't get me wrong I am glad I chose DCA. I've learned a lot of stuff and received some great flight training. I've just had to tailor my training a bit to fit my needs. There are some things I don't like about DCA, but since I've tailored my training, I have sort of circumnavigated most of them. You might just get the payoff if you're lucky.
 
Heading 180

Good luck at DCA. I applaude your determination. When it comes to part 141 and part 61, both work. It's a personal choice. I've done both. Both H46Bubba and DE727UPS have excellent points for you to consider. Note I say to consider. Because only you can or will decide what's right for you. But those guys have made well thought out arguments. I would also consider having a back up plan if you get to DCA and decide it is not right for you. I did. Went to get my 3 instructor ratings in late 2002 and after a few short weeks there, realised (as did the other 2 other guys in the class getting just the instructor ratings) that it was too overpriced a program for what they were offering. We were lied to many times about the ACTUAL cost and evenually just took our money elsewhere, luckily pretty quickly, before giving it all away. I went to a local FBO, got my ratings for about a third of what it was going to cost at DCA (I did lose the VFR/IFR profiency cost...whcih was a scam btw) and instructed at the FBO for about 15 months before getting hired on with a good regional out west. Oh, and so did the other 2 guys.
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Anyways. Just a humble opinion. Have a back up plan if you are moving the whole family. I saw a lot of misery at DCA when I was there.....but also people who were happy.

Regards
 
"that it was too overpriced a program for what they were offering."

What were they offering? Was the guaranteed interview part of it? I think it's funny how they tout the guaranteed interview as a big part of their marketing. Then, like in H46's case and possibly in yours, it's not part of the deal unless you do everything a certain way.

I can see where there was a time when a guaranteed interview might have been valuable, and still is if you want to work for one or two regionals in particular. But, in general, it's certainly not worth much anymore the way things are. I'm wondering what the percentage is of guys who go to DCA who don't use, or need, the guaranteed interview but get on with a regional anyway?
 
They were offering the same instructor ratings that one can receive at most training facitiies. But at about 3-5 times the cost of other places, depending on where you looked. It is expensive enough as it is, but I realised that the majority of students were going anywhere from 20% - 50% over budget on the instructor training costs and it was not uncommon for someone to spend more than $22,000 on these ratings alone, not including the vfr/ifr proficieny we had to do, which was $7,000.Training was reasonable, but not to such a level as to make THAT much expense justifiable. At that stage of the game you are mainly on your own preparing the briefs and lesson plans anyway. In fact the 2 weeks of ground school was by and large a case of listening to other students present their briefs. Some good, some bad. But I for one learned little new that I hadn't already known....


Anyways....like I said. It works but it was way too pricey.
 
It was hard trying to jugle family and school. If I was single I could have been an a DCA instructor by now. The school is really non family friendly oriented. They give you s%!t whenever you need to cancel or reschedule for family obligations. My family comes first, so I just couldn't handle the regular 141 program.
There are a lot of expenses that could be used for more relative things. PCATD, costs more to fly the PC than rent a plane. Waste of money! Oh the new DCA "Operation Manual", which is required by every student and instructor on each and every flight. Waste of money and paper. The regular full time students pay $89 for a 172, plus a fuel surcharge(amount depends on amount of fuel used to refuel a/c after flight.) It adds up! Flex and 61 students pay $79 and no fuel surcharge. I agree with using checklists but, it seems like you doing a checklist every 3-5 minutes. I feel like I'm flying the CRJ by myself and having to fly the plane, do the radio calls, and go through each checklist item.
I enjoy flying through Flying Services(Flex/61). A lot slower speed and more laid back. I still do everything to Academy/FAA standards. Though I was ticked off when I was told that once I switched to Part 61 I could not become an instructor. I would have to re-apply and pay an admissions fee, AGAIN! Nope I really decided that DCA wasn't the place for me to instruct, but was the palce to continue to finsish up my ratings. There are a lot of great people here and I enjoy being here(well maybe not in FL!). I'me hoping to be done by December. The hard part will be to find an FBO that pays better than DCA, and has a really good student base. TN or VA is top picks on our list. We'll see.
 
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Doesn't DCA pay CFI's $10 an hour? That shouldn't be too hard to beat....

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It gets raised to $12.50 an hour should a normally unrealistic target of hours flown by all bases be met each month.

If that doesn't get him to re-consider, I don't know what will!
 
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