had a campus tour about a week ago

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
really impressed with the campus, the flightline, and all the training facilities, as i expected

wasn't impressed with the cfi waiting list at 80 people, or that my tour guide has been there for 3-4 years, and is #~30 on the list.

no offense to him, but thats a long time to wait.

I'm really dissapointed in all the crap i've been hearing lately about how hard it is to find a job flying, or how little you get paid.

a few weeks ago, i was ready to sign away my life for 60 grand, and go to fsi. now i'm not so sure.

i'm already 4 grand in debt from my private training.

is there light at the end of the tunnel?

can i fly for fedex in a cessna caravan and be happy?
can i fly forest service planes that put out fires and make money?
can i fly a leer for a hopsital, airlifting people, and be satisfied?

i'm kinda confused now, as to where i want my flight career to go.

I know i don't want to fly bus' at 35k feet.

i just don't know
 

rausda27

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]

I know i don't want to fly bus' at 35k feet.



[/ QUOTE ]

ummm..FORE!!! Yeah you might want to duck....
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
is there light at the end of the tunnel?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps.

[ QUOTE ]
can i fly for fedex in a cessna caravan and be happy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta have a lot of time for that position, but maybe.

[ QUOTE ]
can i fly forest service planes that put out fires and make money?

[/ QUOTE ]

Also requires a lot of flight experience.

[ QUOTE ]
can i fly a leer for a hopsital, airlifting people, and be satisfied?

[/ QUOTE ]

No idea!

[ QUOTE ]
I know i don't want to fly bus' at 35k feet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor did MikeD, so I'd suggest looking into OCS!
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.


have i wasted money on my private,

are there no jobs out there

edit* who's mikeD, and whats OCS
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
OCS = Officer Candidate School

And MikeD is a one of my college roommates from ERAU that didn't want to 'fly a bus' but flew cargo for a few years and then elisted in the Air Force to fly A-10's and is transitioning to the F-117A shortly.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Nope, but it really depends on what your goals are. For lack of a better description, if you don't want to fly a bus at 35,000 feet, you're probably going to have to extract airline flying and major airline cargo flying from your goals list.

What remains: piston twin/turbine cargo operators, air ambulance, corporate aviation, aerial application (pc term for 'cropdusting'), banner towing, tour operators, and military flying.

But then some military flying, in terms of MAC (military airlift command) is spent on 10 hour missions carrying people, boxes or a combination of both.
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
i'm not dissing your careers, i just don't think its for me.

but, how can i really know, since i have never been in the left seat of a 737


maybe i would like it.

i just love flying my 172

gotta go, doctors appt. bbl
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
I don't think you're dissing it, I'm trying to show you that there are other things than flying around a 757 at FL310.
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
i was trying to tell myself in the beginning when i started my private, that all the stuff i was hearing about lack of job openings in the aviation world, just didn't apply to me, because i wouldn't be a commercial pilot, i was gonna be a airlift pilot, or a fedex hopper, hell, even an island hopper in hawaii.

but if i have to spend 60k to get there, it doesn't sound worth it.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
but if i have to spend 60k to get there, it doesn't sound worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the good news is - you don't.

I'm currently working on my Commercial ratings at my local FBO and I've spent a little over $20K.

I will be nowhere NEAR the $60K range when I'm done. More like between $25K & $30K.

Don't get stuck on the Part 141 route if you think it's not for you.

It's been said more than once: "There is more than one road to Rome."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Part 141 route..... for some.

But, there are other ways - less expensive ways - for you to do it. Now - it will take longer the Part 61 FBO route, but like you said yourself - not a lot of hiring going on right now anyway, so ... what's the rush?

Just look around. Find the route that is best for you and go do it.

Nobody is telling you you have to fly PAX for the rest of your career. Go fly boxes. They don't complain.


Drop me a PM if you have any questions. I don't want to hijack this thread.

Best of luck!

R2F
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
first off, i love the quote in your sig,

and i don't have a problem with the 61 route, thats the way i'm going with my private right now.

i just really liked all the extra training that was offered at FSI, and the environment.

but, the word i got from all of them there, was that there were no new hirings since a 9/11(CFI's n such)

but they say that around the first of the year they should pick up, so i think i should wait untill after then.

other than that, I think I'm gonna stay local FBO, and do my instrument nex.
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
I think going 61 right now is a pretty good idea. If you have the ability to do it over a longer period of time and have a good place to train where you live you are all set. I did not have either of those options so FS worked out great for me, but like you said you have to spend a bunch more money to go that route. Had I had a good part 61 option I would have certainly given that route much thought (well I did do my private part 61). FS is a great school and Im glad I went. That being said you can get a great education training part 61 as well. It all comes down to your own situation and you have to make the call.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
FSI is most definitely one of the best at what they do from all I've heard, so kudos on your choice of Part 141 programs.

[ QUOTE ]
and i don't have a problem with the 61 route, thats the way i'm going with my private right now.

i just really liked all the extra training that was offered at FSI, and the environment.

but, the word i got from all of them there, was that there were no new hirings since a 9/11(CFI's n such)

but they say that around the first of the year they should pick up, so i think i should wait untill after then.

other than that, I think I'm gonna stay local FBO, and do my instrument nex.

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably a good idea for you it sounds like.

I work full time and could not afford to take the time off to attend a program like FSI, so going the FBO route and flying three times a week (on an average, some times more, sometimes less) is working out very well for me.

You could still attend FSI after your IR, if you decided to.

Best of luck!

R2F
 

shooter13

New Member
For what its worth, I was also sold on FSA until I started trying to figure out how to pay for it. Great school but all of those extras cost you. I can't justify it to myself or my family.
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
OK,
first lets address the tour. There is no way that your tour guide has been there for 3-4 years and has only made it to #30 on the list at FSA. I have been there twice from the West Coast in the last TWO 1/2 YEARS. I know most everyone who started with me have either been instructing for a long time at FSA or have moved on to another school near home or even put aviation on the back burner to work and get some loans paid off. Maybe he has been training VERY part time, I don't know. If you go down there and study your butt off, you can be through your MEI in around 9-12 months. Flight Safety is really good about using their connections to find you an instructing job somewhere nearby while on the list. Another thing to remember is that WHEN (?) the next regional hiring boom happens most of those instructors who already have 1500+ hours will leave and the cfi list will be history.

Second,
what you do with your aviation career is up to you. It will be what ever makes you happy. I do have a suggestion for you and anyone else who may be reading this post. There is a small airline called Cape Air that flies Cessna 402's. Nice little 9 seater twin. They fly 6 months in Martha's Vinyard and 6 months in the BAHAMA'S
. The guy that does the hiring for them is a Flight Safety grad and frequently comes down to FSA to recruit pilots. They actually pay very well. I believe it is $30k to start which includes something like 2-3 weeks of vacation, and they pay you your normal salary and $3,000 to get you you to the Bahamas and the same for coming back. I beleive they give you two weeks to get there and then they put you up. I beleive their minimums are 1500/200. I will try to find there site and post it at the bottom. So, as you can see there are all kinds of DIFFERENT jobs out there where you can be happy doing what you love. If I were single I would be all over the Bahama job, at least for a few years.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. You may want to have another career on the side that generates some good income if you choose an airline career.

http://www.flycapeair.com/ca/common/index.php?lng=ENG&div=AA&nav=AA&page=A01

Hope I was of some help...ILS
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
but, the word i got from all of them there, was that there were no new hirings since a 9/11(CFI's n such)


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know who you talked to when you were there but I can gaurantee you that they have had alot of CFI's get hired since 9/11. Call Jackie or Kelly in marketing and they can provide you with a list of all of the CFI's that have been hired. I have seen the list myself when I went back to complete my II/MEI. I keep in touch with both of them on a monthly basis for updates since I am on the ASA list and am considering going back to possibly pursue other programs as well. That brings up a good point. FSA is constantly offering new programs and internships to help the students. Kelly would be the one to speak with about the programs. She is the career counselor. She does a great job helping put together resumes...ILS

Who gave you your tour?

Inquiring ILS's want to know...ILS
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
You need to decide what you want before you decide where to train. If you want to fly for a living, follow your impressions and move to VRB. If you're not sure whether it's for you, then stop right now because it is expensive (regardless of where you go.)

If you decide to fly for fun, then don't consider the $$ you spent on your private wasted.

Good luck and keep all of us up to speed!

Chunk
 

naunga

New Member
First off, read the whole post. I think a lot of people (not saying you do) skim these posts. We don't spend our time typing just because we like the sound of the keys clacking.

Ask yourself this question:

If I spend the next 20 years flying everything I can get my hands on, even if I never fly an 'airliner' will I look back and say "I had a successful career flying"?

From what I've seen, people don't get into flying for the money. Mostly because there isn't a lot of money in it.

Think about it (mind you these numbers are somewhat theoretical)

If you spend 5 years busting your ass building time, and spend (optimistically) $120K on training etc. Then get a job with a regional making $30K / year. So after 4 years you break even, but remember you don't take all that home with you. Let's say that things pick up and 4 years after that you get an upgrade to capt and then make lets say $40K / year. So that's 4 years in the red. So after 3 more years as a RJ capt assuming no raises (just because it makes the math easy) you're now $120K in the black.

Okay, so now you upgrade to an FO at a major. Let's say that's a $30K raise, so you're now making $70K / year. Which is good money, but look at how long it took you to get there.

And that assuming you get on with a regional. I mean you might have to tow banners, instruct, etc. for significantly less money.

Now, look at something like IT. Pay for 4 years of college, which might cost you around $80K. You get out and get a job making $30/year. After 3 years, you're $10K in the black. After a couple of raises, promotions, and moves you're now up to $60K.

You see where this is going. In my example the pilot didn't even break even for 9 years AFTER completing his training and building time, and that with the assumption that you built your time while you did your training.

The real question is this. Let's say the IT guy hates his job. In fact he'd be willing to take a major paycut to do something that he loved. Now let's say the pilot loves flying, and can't imagine doing anything else, and would fly for free if he had to. Who's getting more out of life?

I'm not trying to discourage you at all. Just helping you to be realistic. Fly (or do anything) because you enjoy it. Not because you think you're going to make gobs of money.

In my case, I'm getting my PPL and then my IR, I've done the legwork to see that I could go farther if I choose to (i.e. first class medical), but I'm not sure if I will or not. I just gotta see what life deals to me. I've spent a ton of money on a hobby right now, but I'll never think I wasted my money. Mostly because my goal isn't to fly for a living. It's just to fly. That's what I enjoy doing.

I've recently soloed and have since taken a couple of solo flights. I can't describe to you the feeling of pride and satisfaction that I get from taking that plane up and bringing it back safely (okay, so I bounce every now and then, but I still get back safely). So, you ask, why would I even consider not flying for a living. Well, as other people have pointed out, the life of a pilot isn't glamourous. Long hours, low-pay, lots of political BS to put up with etc. It's not the joyous freedom that you experience drilling holes in the sky in a 172, but that's not to say there aren't rewards. Travel benefits, the satisfaction of knowing you delivered a couple hundred people to their destinations safely (even when they're not impressed), flying really cool equipment with really big engines, and eventually the pay.

So, have you wasted your money on your private? IMHO, no. Unless of course you'll never use it if you can't fly for a living. Are there no jobs out there? I don't know for sure. My guess is that there are jobs out there, but right now there aren't a lot of them, and they may actually depend on who you know.

So, don't fly because you think it would make a cool job. Fly because you love it (actually don't do anything because you think it would be a cool job...trust me on this.), Now is the time to train because there aren't many jobs out there right now. And if after looking at all the goods and bads you still are determined to fly for a living. Don't get discouraged, but also don't look for the quick and easy path...that leads to the Dark Side...opps...sorry wrong message board.


Good luck to you.

Naunga
 
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