Gusty Winds Full Flaps?

bc2209

Well-Known Member
I received a slight tongue lashing today for reaching for full flaps on approach today in gusty conditions (12 gusting 20) good amount of crosswind

He explained that full flaps during strong and gusting winds are a safety hazard and I would surely fail a check ride if I did that.

I was able to find some information in the Airplane Flying Handbook about not deploying full flaps in turbulent and gusty crosswinds but it doesn't sound like it's a...NO, NEVER, EVER situation.

I learned something today no doubt about that. But i'd like to hear some thoughts.

Good practice? Always should be done with reduced flaps? PIC decision?

Thanks guys
 
I think its all depends on the situation. But in the 207 I wouldnt do full flaps in gusty conditions. Same in the CASA.
 
ASpilot2be said:
I think its all depends on the situation. But in the 207 I wouldnt do full flaps in gusty conditions. Same in the CASA.
Hell, I think I only once landed the Saab full flaps. Now in the Hawker and 601, it's full flaps no matter what.
 
It's all on your comfort level. Never ever violate company procedures. Don't know what time you have in that particular aircraft, but you'll gain experience in knowing what you can do to get the plane down safely. If it ever gets to that point again and it's not a critical phase a flight, tell the guy next to you,"Your flight controls."
 
I received a slight tongue lashing today for reaching for full flaps on approach today in gusty conditions (12 gusting 20) good amount of crosswind

He explained that full flaps during strong and gusting winds are a safety hazard and I would surely fail a check ride if I did that.
Thanks guys

I've heard of using less than full flaps, specifically no flaps in a GA airplane with high winds, but i'm talking about pushing 40 knot winds, 12 G 20 seems a bit excessive. I'm sure it depends on the airplane, but 12 G 20 doesn't strike me as anything out of the ordinary unless that was a direct crosswind. What type of airplane?
 
I've heard of using less than full flaps, specifically no flaps in a GA airplane with high winds, but i'm talking about pushing 40 knot winds, 12 G 20 seems a bit excessive. I'm sure it depends on the airplane, but 12 G 20 doesn't strike me as anything out of the ordinary unless that was a direct crosswind. What type of airplane?


Piper Arrow that i'm using for CFI training. Ended up being like a 15 kt crosswind if I remember correctly.
 
If it was who I think it was, I'll help you hide the body...

There's no reason you cannot land the Arrow with full flaps with the winds the way they were today. Hell, even in the DA-40 I'd land full flaps on a day like today. Besides, the NOTAM is "wind instruments out of service, wind is estimated only." And I can almost guarantee you there was more than a couple full flap landings done in the company Archers today too.
 
Depending on the aircraft you can actually run out of rudder depending how strong the crosswind is. I practiced landings one time with a direct crosswind 15 gusting 25 in a 172R. When I did full flaps I was merely at the mercy of the wind as the plane slowed down, I would have full rudder deflection, but the wind would still be too strong trying to weather vane it. Now come in with a less flap setting and a higher approach speed, and now you have more rudder authority as you approach and land at higher airspeeds. So really with a crosswind like that it was most advantageous to land with zero flaps in the 172R with that strong of a crosswind. It doesn't mean you can't use more flaps then that, the flying just becomes more sporty, and for me personally I find it more fun and a challenge in the small planes.

Now operating the larger jets for a company, I'll do whatever they want me to do, and from what I've seen in gusty conditions, jet operators will use less than full flap settings coming in with faster approach speeds.
 
Let me pose the as an answer to your question:

Is the aircraft certified for full flaps at the maximum demonstrated crosswind component?
 
If you don't land with full flaps, how are you going to raise them in the flare?

About half the airplanes I fly don't have flaps, and the ones that do have their own quirks that become pilot preference over time. So develop your own habits that agree with operating limitations and safety.
 
I received a slight tongue lashing today for reaching for full flaps on approach today in gusty conditions (12 gusting 20) good amount of crosswind

He explained that full flaps during strong and gusting winds are a safety hazard and I would surely fail a check ride if I did that.

I was able to find some information in the Airplane Flying Handbook about not deploying full flaps in turbulent and gusty crosswinds but it doesn't sound like it's a...NO, NEVER, EVER situation.
Erm, no, it's not a "never" situation. You won't fail a checkride for it either. Unless your examiner is a royal, um, can I say that word here?

Considering the difference in stall speeds of most light airplanes flaps up vs. flaps down, the difference is usually not all that spectacular. We're talking a handful of knots on the high end of the scale. For most landings in most GA single operations the landing flap setting is largely irrelevant from a runway required standpoint. Now, if you want to put your 182 into a short place, that's another story, but most GA pilots also aren't doing that. That said, I still use full flaps in our Twin Bonanza, and used them basically every time in the 206 and 172/182 when I flew those. Because, well, "that's how I did it."

It's a largely irrelevant argument, except on the Internettes. As far as "handling" goes, I don't think there was that much of a difference in the GA singles I flew either. I'd rather hang the drag out there.

Good practice? Always should be done with reduced flaps? PIC decision?
Yup. Do whatever you need to do in order to extract the performance you want out of the airplane. If that means no flaps, and that's an approved landing flap setting for your airplane, that means no flaps. If it means full flaps, then use full flaps.

Short of a limitation about what flap setting to use in the approved AFM, or if you are operating a jet, you can use whatever flap setting you deem appropriate, all the time, every time.

Hell, I think I only once landed the Saab full flaps. Now in the Hawker and 601, it's full flaps no matter what.
Flaps 25 was "standard" on the Brasilia. Flaps 45 was "pretty darn cool" slash "how slow can we fly this thing?" A lot of (upgrades from the jet) captains only did 45 when they absolutely had to, performance-wise; I was a little more liberal in the use of full landing flaps when it was either operationally expedient (terminal is at the near end is a good enough reason) or when the runway was short(er) as an excuse to practice for when I absolutely had to (Carlsbad, Crescent City and the like). Some old-time captains did Flaps 45 all the time, SOP be damned: Embraer put them on there to be used. The decision to make 25 standard was to save fuel and flap actuator wear. (The 145 was roughly the same way with 22/45.)

Ditto on the -170/-190 with 5 and FULL. FULL is 'mostly' used for situations that are maximum performance, and 5 is used for everything else, including category II.
 
Aha good question. From what I can find in the POH yes it is.

Since this in preparation for a rating checkride, the correct answer is whatever the examiner wants you to do. Cooperate = graduate.
 
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