Guard UPT while at an airline?

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bp

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Wanted to see if there were any guard/airline pilots that could answer a question for me.

I've been thinking about ANG slots more and more and will probably begin putting a packet together this winter.

If I do go to a regional sometime next year and start flying/hold a line, and during that time I somehow get selected for UPT, do you resign from the airline gig or get some sort of military leave once you get a date for school? My friend is just finishing on the Herc and has been gone over 2 years for training, seems like it might be quite a while to hold a civilian job. It would be amazing to hold your seniority while you're gone, but I can't see that being a reality.
I'm 25 and have about 1200hrs flying survey, if it makes a difference...
 
no idea how this would be handled on the airline end, but you will not have time for anything else whatsoever during flight training, so one way or another, your civilian job would have to go away for a couple years for that. As I understand it, there is also a period of time where you are basically full time after that, getting fully mission qualified in your aircraft, which I'd imagine would be the better part of another year or two. Not sure if that last part is completely accurate in terms of time commitment, but I know the flight school part is.
 
bimmerphile said:
I'm 25 and have about 1200hrs flying survey, if it makes a difference...
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With respect to the age, so long as you are in training by 30, no problem. Older than that requires a waiver, and I've seen many UPT students who had that waiver.

The hours don't really matter as much as they do in the civilian world. Mathematically, the PCSM score tops out (maximum points) with 200 hours of flying, but obviously your experience is proof of your enthusiasm about aviation, and can be useful at your interview to get hired at a particular unit.
 
@///AMG You can take military leave for the entirety of training, it's a great way to build seniority.

@Hacker15e Age waivers are much harder to come by than in past years. I expect this requirement to relax a bit as the airlines continue to take more guys out of the service.
 
Soku39 said:
@///AMG You can take military leave for the entirety of training, it's a great way to build seniority..
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This is what I was wondering about. If I go to some small wholly owned regional with a decent contract and a flow, fly 1000hr 121 SIC, then get picked for UPT FY17 or '18, I could come back and upgrade or flow to a major if my number comes up.
 
bimmerphile said:
This is what I was wondering about. If I go to some small wholly owned regional with a decent contract and a flow, fly 1000hr 121 SIC, then get picked for UPT FY17 or '18, I could come back and upgrade or flow to a major if my number comes up.
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You would definitely not be the first person with this plan.
 
Hacker15e said:
You would definitely not be the first person with this plan.
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I didn't think so. Is this strategy frowned upon?
In talks with my Herc buddy, he mentioned that Guard fighter pilots have a greater commitment than someone flying tankers or cargo; something about chasing currency in a wider variety of tasks made it more of a full-time gig. Any truth to that?
 
bimmerphile said:
This is what I was wondering about. If I go to some small wholly owned regional with a decent contract and a flow, fly 1000hr 121 SIC, then get picked for UPT FY17 or '18, I could come back and upgrade or flow to a major if my number comes up.
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With the old school rules you could upgrade when you came back. With the new rules you need 1000 hours Part 121 SIC (500 military PIC creditable towards this requirement) before you are eligible to upgrade. With part 117 rules this is about 1 3/4 years of flying as a lineholder, and that would be without being gone working for the military half the time. It will probably take me another 2 1/2 to 3 years to be eligible to upgrade in part 121 because I fly for the Guard so much, that said I'll probably get upgraded in the Herc next year if the stars continue to stay aligned. What all the military leave will do for you is let you come back at a pretty decent seniority. I did this and am now 40% in base at my regional. I get what I bid and never fly for the airline over the weekend (personal preference, I personally hate flying 121 over the weekend). Fighter units do not have a greater commitment, the commitment is 10 years after winging Air Force wide. What they do have is a longer training timeline as you have to add in IFF and a long B-course, also seasoning is longer, sometimes as much as 2 years in length. You also need a TON of beans to stay current/qual'd in a fighter, like it's painful to stay current as a part time Herc driver, especially if you're formation. I couldn't begin to imagine the nightmare of balancing life as an 0-2 or junior 0-3 in a fighter squadron with being an airline pilot, or any civilian career for that matter.

Is the small wholly owned regional you are thinking about Piedmont or PSA or Envoy? Either way you better get on that boat QUICK if you want the flow to mean anything. I'm PSA scum that started working there September of 2014 and I'm looking at 6 to 8 years to get to American if I stick around for the flow. I have no idea how many guys we've hired in the last 14 months, but I'm sure its at least another 200 numbers, so ya if this is your plan don't drag your feet.
 
Soku39 said:
With the old school rules you could upgrade when you came back. With the new rules you need 1000 hours Part 121 SIC (500 military PIC creditable towards this requirement) before you are eligible to upgrade. With part 117 rules this is about 1 3/4 years of flying as a lineholder, and that would be without being gone working for the military half the time. It will probably take me another 2 1/2 to 3 years to be eligible to upgrade in part 121 because I fly for the Guard so much, that said I'll probably get upgraded in the Herc next year if the stars continue to stay aligned. What all the military leave will do for you is let you come back at a pretty decent seniority. I did this and am now 40% in base at my regional. I get what I bid and never fly for the airline over the weekend (personal preference, I personally hate flying 121 over the weekend). Fighter units do not have a greater commitment, the commitment is 10 years after winging Air Force wide. What they do have is a longer training timeline as you have to add in IFF and a long B-course, also seasoning is longer, sometimes as much as 2 years in length. You also need a TON of beans to stay current/qual'd in a fighter, like it's painful to stay current as a part time Herc driver, especially if you're formation. I couldn't begin to imagine the nightmare of balancing life as an 0-2 or junior 0-3 in a fighter squadron with being an airline pilot, or any civilian career for that matter.

Is the small wholly owned regional you are thinking about Piedmont or PSA or Envoy? Either way you better get on that boat QUICK if you want the flow to mean anything. I'm PSA scum that started working there September of 2014 and I'm looking at 6 to 8 years to get to American if I stick around for the flow. I have no idea how many guys we've hired in the last 14 months, but I'm sure its at least another 200 numbers, so ya if this is your plan don't drag your feet.
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PDT. I have 300hr to go for my ATP, so probably looking at interviewing over the winter and trying to get a class date before my written expires.
If I start flying late summer 16 while submitting packets/waiting on UPT boards, I'm assuming I would be at PDT 2 years before I get selected and get a class date. Not sure how much those lineholders are flying, but I think I may be able to eke out 1000 hours SIC in 2 years.
Yeah, I probably should have worded the "commitment" thing differently, I guess more of a keeping current in different mission profiles (don't know what it's called) in fighters versus someone flying a C17 or C5.

At this point I'm planning on going airlines; if I do get selected along the way, then I'd re-evaluate and cross that bridge when I come to it.
 
bimmerphile said:
PDT. I have 300hr to go for my ATP, so probably looking at interviewing over the winter and trying to get a class date before my written expires.
If I start flying late summer 16 while submitting packets/waiting on UPT boards, I'm assuming I would be at PDT 2 years before I get selected and get a class date. Not sure how much those lineholders are flying, but I think I may be able to eke out 1000 hours SIC in 2 years.
Yeah, I probably should have worded the "commitment" thing differently, I guess more of a keeping current in different mission profiles (don't know what it's called) in fighters versus someone flying a C17 or C5.

At this point I'm planning on going airlines; if I do get selected along the way, then I'd re-evaluate and cross that bridge when I come to it.
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The thing is PDT is a decently small pilot group with like 50+ lifter captains that are never going to take the flow, so add some time to that 2 years, because you'll be on reserve for awhile, I don't know how well PDT is staffed or how quickly they're expanding, but at PSA FOs that are on reserve aren't flying that much, so there's a pretty decent delay toward building time built in until you're a lineholder. That's why I would plan on more than 2 years to have the 1000 to upgrade. You can get a pilot slot, you seem pretty motivated, just don't be wishy washy about it, go hard at it and don't quit until someone says yes.
 
Soku39 said:
The thing is PDT is a decently small pilot group with like 50+ lifter captains that are never going to take the flow, so add some time to that 2 years, because you'll be on reserve for awhile, I don't know how well PDT is staffed or how quickly they're expanding, but at PSA FOs that are on reserve aren't flying that much, so there's a pretty decent delay toward building time built in until you're a lineholder. That's why I would plan on more than 2 years to have the 1000 to upgrade. You can get a pilot slot, you seem pretty motivated, just don't be wishy washy about it, go hard at it and don't quit until someone says yes.
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I've been trying to get in touch with a current PDT pilot to get some more info on it, specifically reserve time, but haven't had any luck yet. They're opening a PHL base that's supposed to take half of their pilots, and started getting 145s from Envoy(?). In a perfect world I'd go to PHL and either get a slot flying tankers at McGuire, fighters in Atlantic City, or transports at Dover. Live in base, pick up as much flying as possible, and wait on the boards
 
I think PHL is going to go really senior, I'd still plan on being at a low frequency, double or triple leg commute outbase in Carolina or Virginia somewhere. I can almost guarantee a perfect world won't happen, but it can over time, it took me 3 or 4 years to make happen, but I now drive 45 minutes to my guard base and 3 hours to my airline gig, but I only do the airline thing 2x a month. I personally think living where the unit is is far more important than living where the airline base is because of local flying, drill, training, and all the other non flying stuff that goes into being a military guy. It's nice to be at home after going in to write OPRs or do ancillary training and other queep. I wish I knew some PDT guys, but I don't, just ask around on the airline pilot section of the boards or (shudders) APC and get the scoop.
 
I originally thought that it may go senior too, but since they've had outstation basing for so long maybe most guys live in a base already? Another question for PDT line pilots.
I'm not picky on an airframe in the Guard, and I'm really open to moving anywhere. Will start looking for other guard units near ROA, MDT, EWN as well
 
Ya I'm really not sure either way. I think PDT is in for some boat rocking, morale killing, pissing contest having issues over the next few years as this whole ERJ thing happens, we'll see. Well good luck, let us know how it goes.
 
@bimmerphile
I'm on of those "success" stories. I was on mil leave going through Army IERW flight school. I came back after 22 months of mil leave. I would have held JFK captain a few months after I returned. I punched out to fly le Fifi instead.

One of my Battlion SP's has been on mil leave for 7 years. He's going back this spring to an upgrade.
 
bimmerphile said:
I've been trying to get in touch with a current PDT pilot to get some more info on it, specifically reserve time, but haven't had any luck yet. They're opening a PHL base that's supposed to take half of their pilots, and started getting 145s from Envoy(?). In a perfect world I'd go to PHL and either get a slot flying tankers at McGuire, fighters in Atlantic City, or transports at Dover. Live in base, pick up as much flying as possible, and wait on the boards
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Do not talk to them about your plans for the guard/reserves, at all. You don't want to negatively effect your hiring chances. I wouldn't open my mouth until I got selected and orders, then drop mil leave (you get upto 5 years).

Otherwise PDT with spending a bit of your flow through time in seasoning is a great idea. Their upgrades are 12months right now (allegedly) and its 2 months of reserve before you hold a line (allegedly).

If I end up at a regional PDT will be my #1 choice if I had to pick today.
 
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