Guard/Reserve Questions

Dan208B

Dan208B

Well-Known Member
Hello,

My wife is a Boeing engineer and looking at becoming a part-time military pilot. Her initial thought was ANG or a reserve unit but is Navy reserves an option for someone with no prior military experience that doesn't want to enlist full-time? (we are in WA and I understand part-timers do drill so we are looking at what's within reasonable driving distance). Some options might be Portland ANG unit, McChord Reserve, Whidbey Naval Reserve, or perhaps Fairchild AFB Guard. Just looking for some basic info on what she can even consider. Thanks!
 
The guard and reserves are a good place to go for someone who wants to be both a civie and a military pilot. But there are some hurdles that must be crossed.

She will need to take around 2 years off of her job. They are required to let her leave and upon her return place her back into her previous job or something very similar, but you will lose the pay and benefits during that time.

The process getting hired by a unit is rather long, involving testing, paperwork, trips to docs, trips to the units, and interviews. It took me nearly 2 years from the start of the application until I started officer school. Once she is hired she will have to attend officer school (3 months) then go to undergraduate pilot training (1 year) then get trained in the aircraft she will fly (3-6 months) along the way she will have to go to some additional training such as survival school, water survival school, and other specialized classes depending on the unit and aircraft she will be flying.

As far as the actual Guard/Reserve life after pilot training I don't know much about it. The friends I have who are in guard units all seem to like it, but it does place additional commitments on your work time and free time.
 
Dan208B said:
Hello,

My wife is a Boeing engineer and looking at becoming a part-time military pilot. Her initial thought was ANG or a reserve unit but is Navy reserves an option for someone with no prior military experience that doesn't want to enlist full-time? (we are in WA and I understand part-timers do drill so we are looking at what's within reasonable driving distance). Some options might be Portland ANG unit, McChord Reserve, Whidbey Naval Reserve, or perhaps Fairchild AFB Guard. Just looking for some basic info on what she can even consider. Thanks!
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Naval reserve, you have to be a prior USN pilot already winged, you can't start in the Reserves from off the street to aviation I don't believe.
 
MikeD said:
Naval reserve, you have to be a prior USN pilot already winged, you can't start in the Reserves from off the street to aviation I don't believe.
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Correct. I not true in all communities, but in Naval Aviation, reserve flying gigs are only for guys who have completed the regular active duty requirement incurred at winging (8 years post wings, or normally about 10 years overall minimum). So normally very senior O-3 to junior O-4 is your first opportunity to go there. Honestly, the idea of being a "part time military pilot" is pretty unrealistic in this day and age.....USAF, USN, or whatever. It is a huge career and time commitment, and on the ANG side, she could expect deployments as well. One doesn't just kind of have a side job where they hop into a military airplane and goof around for a couple hours a month. Reference above for the initial training/seasoning discussion, but no service is just going to have a brand new FNG who doesn't know anything about anything start flying their jets around at the rate of a drill week per month. You'd be a mishap waiting to happen with that level of currency and overall experience in the aircraft. I'm not saying she shouldn't go for it, but she needs to have some realistic expectations about what it is going to entail....which it sounds like you are asking about here.
 
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///AMG said:
Correct. I not true in all communities, but in Naval Aviation, reserve flying gigs are only for guys who have completed the regular active duty requirement incurred at winging (8 years post wings, or normally about 10 years overall minimum). So normally very senior O-3 to junior O-4 is your first opportunity to go there. Honestly, the idea of being a "part time military pilot" is pretty unrealistic in this day and age.....USAF, USN, or whatever. It is a huge career and time commitment, and on the ANG side, she could expect deployments as well. One doesn't just kind of have a side job where they hop into a military airplane and goof around for a couple hours a month. Reference above for the initial training/seasoning discussion, but no service is just going to have a brand new FNG who doesn't know anything about anything start flying their jets around at the rate of a drill week per month. You'd be a mishap waiting to happen with that level of currency and overall experience in the aircraft. I'm not saying she shouldn't go for it, but she needs to have some realistic expectations about what it is going to entail....which it sounds like you are asking about here.
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Our new copilots are generally given seasoning orders when they arrive for certain amounts of time (2-6 months) to get them accustomed to the aircraft. After that, remaining current requires at minimum 2-4 flights per month, not including any TDY's or deployments. Obviously the copilots that fly more often get better and earn more respect in the unit, upgrading faster and getting better deals. My minimum schedule (as a bum) is 2 flights, a drill weekend, plus a TDY (3-5 days) to make ends meet, but I could drop the TDY and still be current.

Things to ask about: participation required to become *proficient*, not just current; deployment schedule and cycle; common paths/timelines for new pilots.

IMO, it works out best to commit to being a full-timer for 2-3 years (AFTER training), and then move into bumming. Gives you time to become truly excellent at your job before distractions come in. Flying in the military is *much* more demanding than the civilian world.
 
Feel free to give me a shout if you want info about Army Guard aviation.
Much like what has already been said, it's a long road, bumpy and extremely demanding.
 
NewYorkophile said:
Things to ask about: participation required to become *proficient*, not just current; deployment schedule and cycle; common paths/timelines for new pilots.
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Yeah that is sort of what I was getting at. I'm sure that the "proficiency" thing differs depending on community, but PDX ANG (F-15C) or similar units would be a long road to being anything resembling being a combat ready pilot. I walked out of my first (3 year) operational tour on active duty as a combat division lead ("flight lead" in USAF parlance) but I wouldn't have been 1/4 of the way to that point had I been on a pure reserve schedule. Getting wings and being qualified to start up the jet is one thing, but getting quals that can help the unit is a different thing. That stuff takes a bazillion hours of studying, flying, briefing/debriefing, etc etc in the fighter community.....I'd imagine the same could be said for other realms of flying too.
 
flyboy6585 said:
The guard and reserves are a good place to go for someone who wants to be both a civie and a military pilot. But there are some hurdles that must be crossed.

She will need to take around 2 years off of her job. They are required to let her leave and upon her return place her back into her previous job or something very similar, but you will lose the pay and benefits during that time.

The process getting hired by a unit is rather long, involving testing, paperwork, trips to docs, trips to the units, and interviews. It took me nearly 2 years from the start of the application until I started officer school. Once she is hired she will have to attend officer school (3 months) then go to undergraduate pilot training (1 year) then get trained in the aircraft she will fly (3-6 months) along the way she will have to go to some additional training such as survival school, water survival school, and other specialized classes depending on the unit and aircraft she will be flying.

As far as the actual Guard/Reserve life after pilot training I don't know much about it. The friends I have who are in guard units all seem to like it, but it does place additional commitments on your work time and free time.
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As @//AMG was saying, something like the PDX unit, you'll probably never see your wife again for quite a while pretty much........about 3 years or so, as she'll have little time for anything resembling family for a good few years and may as well be a geograpical bachelorette for all intents and purposes. Just something to be prepared for, unless that's your plan to be rid of her for a while. :)

Two things to consider: For ANG/AFRES units, they're VERY big about hiring qualified folks who are already enlisted persons in their unit and who they already know and have seen around. It's a little more unusual that these units just hire someone off the street whom they know nothing about. And to that end, if your wife's age will require an age waiver of any kind, those are also usually only done for those already in the unit, as they're somewhat time consuming of a process to get approved.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. Lots of great info here. She's 24 so plenty of time to do this. Her Boeing supervisors are on board with an extended military leave of absence. However after discussing all this it seems like McChord C17 or Fairchild Tanker would be a better option for our life in general and avoids the issues mentioned regarding fighters. Shes currently working on a private pilot license with the understanding that it helps in the application process (and she wants to do that anyways). I'm a civilian background airline pilot so I really appreciate the info you all have given, I know very little about this other than what folks I've flown with that are in a guard unit or reserves have told me.
 
Dan208B said:
Thanks for the replies everyone. Lots of great info here. She's 24 so plenty of time to do this. Her Boeing supervisors are on board with an extended military leave of absence. However after discussing all this it seems like McChord C17 or Fairchild Tanker would be a better option for our life in general and avoids the issues mentioned regarding fighters. Shes currently working on a private pilot license with the understanding that it helps in the application process (and she wants to do that anyways). I'm a civilian background airline pilot so I really appreciate the info you all have given, I know very little about this other than what folks I've flown with that are in a guard unit or reserves have told me.
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Protip, she should not be talking about this with her supervisors, she should not be talking about this to anyone at work until she is sworn in, orders to AMS/OTS in hand, only then is she protected by USERRA. I have seen people get completely black balled in their civilian career by doing exactly what she's doing and shooting themselves in the foot. No employers want to hear about their revenue generating employees "leaving for a couple years". She might not be suitable physically, she might never get hired etc etc, she should continue her life as if she will never go to UPT, which is exactly what I did while I was sitting on pins and needles for a year waiting to see if my waivers would be approved. Get the PPL, go interview, go visit units, use personal time, whatever, but Boeing or whoever the employer is does not need to know about it.

Also if she's really serious about doing this you guys might want to consider casting a wider net, especially for someone trying to go street to seat. I know guys that were prior enlisted that got passed over 2 or 3 times at their home unit before getting a slot. The way this whole thing reads is that it's "kinda sorta something she would like to do if it conveniently aligns with our lives", and truthfully that's pretty weak. What happens if those units get BRAC'd and things become not so convenient, those pesky deployments, when she was to work 12 days in a row to keep up with both jobs/quals in the jet, and a million other issues that need to be considered. You two should really seek out an guard/reserve AMC pilot and talk to them to figure out how much of a time commitment it will really be so you have a realistic idea of what she's getting in to.
 
NewYorkophile said:
Our new copilots are generally given seasoning orders when they arrive for certain amounts of time (2-6 months) to get them accustomed to the aircraft. After that, remaining current requires at minimum 2-4 flights per month, not including any TDY's or deployments. Obviously the copilots that fly more often get better and earn more respect in the unit, upgrading faster and getting better deals. My minimum schedule (as a bum) is 2 flights, a drill weekend, plus a TDY (3-5 days) to make ends meet, but I could drop the TDY and still be current.

Things to ask about: participation required to become *proficient*, not just current; deployment schedule and cycle; common paths/timelines for new pilots.

IMO, it works out best to commit to being a full-timer for 2-3 years (AFTER training), and then move into bumming. Gives you time to become truly excellent at your job before distractions come in. Flying in the military is *much* more demanding than the civilian world.
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You can make a living bumming that few of days?
 
Each flying and drill day is a double pay period, so really I'm getting paid for 11-13 days, when I only worked about half that. The TDY's are also "free money", on top of your annual allocations, and you make per diem and full benefits (BAH, etc).

So 8 Guard pay periods = $1100ish, plus $750 in TDY, plus $200 per diem, so around $2050/mo. For about 1 week of work. Doesn't work for everyone.
 
When you say 8 pay periods is that 2 flights and a drill weekend? I thought you didn't get Tdy or per diem unless you commute to your unit? Do doubles pay days make more than AD with full benefits?
 
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scoobs said:
When you say 8 pay periods is that 2 flights and a drill weekend? I thought you didn't get Tdy or per diem unless you commute to your unit? Do doubles pay days make more than AD with full benefits?
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One UTA day is 2 pay periods. Each pay period is the equivalent of one active duty day. On UTA status you are paid for your time no matter if you are sitting in briefings, flying or whatever. So for an entire drill weekend you are paid for 4 days, flying or not does not matter.

You get per diem on TDY no matter what. If you are outside the commuting distance you will get mileage from your home of record to the unit and back. If inside the commuting distance you do not get mileage.

The only status you get "double pay days" for is a UTA or RUTA (makeup drill) status. All other statuses, AFTP (ground and fly), AT, ST, Title 10 and Title 32 pay the same as active duty. There are variations on entitlements and retirement points depending on what status you are in.
 
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How many UTA's do you get a year? With AFTP you can work a ground and flight for double pay correct? So a UTA considered a TDY? Sorry for the confusion, I'm just trying to determine what he considered 8 pay periods in his example.
 
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48 UTA periods per year. UTA is not a TDY, you do not get paid mileage outside the commuting distance for UTA, you are however entitled to government rate lodging Friday and Saturday night of drill weekend.

For AFTPs you are either ground OR fly. For example if I have a 1300 local that's a 2.5 I will show at 0800-1200 for the mission planning and briefing, for this I will use one AFTP ground, which is only one pay period. For 1200-1600 I will use an AFTP fly to over the flight as you must be in some kind of flight status to be on the flight orders. Those two combined are roughly equal to one active duty day paywise, but not for entitlements.

It is kinda confusing aft first. I screwed some things up in my first few months at a traditional, which is to be expected, but you learn over time.
 
TDY pay is based on status. Generally speaking for generic guard lift or TACC lift the orders will title 32 or title 10. Per Diem pay is based on location, it's the same rate as any other DOD or Federal entity.
 
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