Ground ref for an MEI rating?

darli328

Well-Known Member
Got somewhat of an odd question but I was looking over the Multiengine Instructor PTS and it seems like you have to do ground ref (turns around a point, s-turns on a road, etc) if it's you're initial CFI or initial Airplane CFI. I currently have a CFI Helicopter (RH in the PTS matrix thing). I've never head of anyone doing ground ref in a multiengine airplane (never did it for my multi private add on or my multi commercial initial). I was looking at doing my MEI at ATP as an add on to my CFI Helicopter and am curious if anyone has ever heard or done ground ref in a multi... Thanks
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
Yup per the PTS they can. I had to do either a turn around a point or an s turn on mine. I did the s turn because the turn around a point was a pain at the time in the nole.
 

darli328

Well-Known Member
Yup per the PTS they can. I had to do either a turn around a point or an s turn on mine. I did the s turn because the turn around a point was a pain at the time in the nole.
Thanks for the heads up. I just never would of thought I had to do ground ref in the seminole... Oh well, I guess that's just more multi time...
 

jcremy

Well-Known Member
Yeah I found out about the ground ref. for my MEI intial in the plane when the examiner said do turns-around-a-point. Kind of a suprise since I never did those in the twin, but it was no deal, very simple.
 

SoonerAv8r

Well-Known Member
I had to do them for my MEI as the initial also at ATP. My Examiner told me I could choose whichever I wanted. So I picked rectangular course, using the left spinner as my reference point.
 

SIUav8er

Narcosis
Thanks for the heads up. I just never would of thought I had to do ground ref in the seminole... Oh well, I guess that's just more multi time...
The reason being is that technically, as an MEI, you can train primary students in a twin in which case those primary students must be taught ground ref maneuvers.

The nice thing i guess is that you WONT have to demo ground ref maneuvers on your CFI single engine add on.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
The reason being is that technically, as an MEI, you can train primary students in a twin in which case those primary students must be taught ground ref maneuvers.

The nice thing i guess is that you WONT have to demo ground ref maneuvers on your CFI single engine add on.
Damn Keith, I learn something from you like,.... everyday.
 

insidious

Well-Known Member
I heard that Black in FLL will ask people to do ground refs
yup. he just had me do s-turns a week ago, and one of my buddies did turns around a point with him. hadnt ever done em in the seminole either, but i don't see what the concern is... aren't grm's cake?
 

darli328

Well-Known Member
yup. he just had me do s-turns a week ago, and one of my buddies did turns around a point with him. hadnt ever done em in the seminole either, but i don't see what the concern is... aren't grm's cake?
Ground ref maneuvers probably are cake, I don't remember. I haven't done them since my private single engine land back in early 05... Either way, if it takes me an extra flight or two to get the hang of them at least I'm getting multi time out of it...
 

darli328

Well-Known Member
The reason being is that technically, as an MEI, you can train primary students in a twin in which case those primary students must be taught ground ref maneuvers.

The nice thing i guess is that you WONT have to demo ground ref maneuvers on your CFI single engine add on.
Is that requirment recenly new? The only reason I ask is because I don't think my old private multi PTS has anything about ground ref in it. But who knows, I've been wrong before... Ha, at least you wont have to do them on the single add on... Thanks
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
Is that requirment recenly new? The only reason I ask is because I don't think my old private multi PTS has anything about ground ref in it. But who knows, I've been wrong before... Ha, at least you wont have to do them on the single add on... Thanks
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Did you do your initial private in the ME? It it was just an add on then no. However for your initial CFI you must demonstrate ground reference. THUS if you do your initial in a Multi Engine aircraft you must do those in the ME instead of the single. Its whatever your initial is in.
 

darli328

Well-Known Member
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Did you do your initial private in the ME? It it was just an add on then no. However for your initial CFI you must demonstrate ground reference. THUS if you do your initial in a Multi Engine aircraft you must do those in the ME instead of the single. Its whatever your initial is in.
My multi private was an add on but my initial commerical was in the multi... I never had to do 8s on pylons or crazy 8s in the nole... But what I was saying is when I was looking through my old private multi PTS (way back when) I don't remember seeing a section about ground ref for the initial guys. But obviously you're right. Thanks again for the heads up.
 

tgrayson

New Member
Is that requirment recenly new? The only reason I ask is because I don't think my old private multi PTS has anything about ground ref in it. But who knows, I've been wrong before... Ha, at least you wont have to do them on the single add on... Thanks
They're not in the private ME PTS, but 61.87 requires *some* training in ground reference maneuvers prior to solo for student pilots. For an add-on, wouldn't be required.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
My multi private was an add on but my initial commerical was in the multi... I never had to do 8s on pylons or crazy 8s in the nole... But what I was saying is when I was looking through my old private multi PTS (way back when) I don't remember seeing a section about ground ref for the initial guys. But obviously you're right. Thanks again for the heads up.
Ah yeah. None of those. When we were talking about ground reference we stictly were speaking of those in which you would be required to do for a private certificate. I dont have a PTS on me but that's why I guessed for any initial private you would have to do some sort of training in ground reference. I will tell you a story from an examiner I had in DAB. During his time he went to get qualified with FSDO as a DPE. During that training he did all those in the ME aircraft. I am unaware what aircraft he did this in. But it included doing power off 180s and the rest in which you mentioned. He said it was really fun and unique. But this of course is something you would never do any other time.
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
Did my MEI/CFI initial back in '97. There was no requirement to do ground reference during a CFI/MEI initial ride back then.
 
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