Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?'s

Malko

Malko

ughhh
Staff member
Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

So I am a sitting am at work and listening to LiveATC.net. I have JFK dialed up and they are going friggin crazy. There are ground/taxi/departure delays running from 2-3 hours. The question I is regarding shutdown. The controllers are having people taxi to a certain spot and then telling them to shutdown. I am assuming this is engine shutdown, but is there something (APU) that they must leave running?

last comment...
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United xxx "ground, united xxx are we cleared...."
Controller: "I didn't call you, I don't know"

ON top of all this the controller jsut told everyone to startup because on top of the ground holds....etc, they now have a runway change.
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These controllers are earning their money tonight.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

Used to happen a lot in MCO during the afternoon. Give ya two guesses why.....

Most of the guys would sit on the taxiiway with either just one engine running or just the APU.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

[ QUOTE ]
Used to happen a lot in MCO during the afternoon. Give ya two guesses why.....


[/ QUOTE ]

Afternoon T-storms.....?

This RW change is killing the controllers. I think the guy is ready to kill several pilots.......
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Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

Yep. T-storms. Most of the time, they were followed by a wind shift, so a lot of those guys would have to turn around and taxi to the other end of the runway.......
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

Happened 2 days ago in Charlotte. I was jumpseating back from Memphis (got out of my IAH deadhead). I was hoping to get back by around 5:30 or so. We taxied out in CLT, got just past the D Concourse and I heard 1 being shut down. There were storms over Columbia and they weren't releasing southbound departures. Shortly there after, we shut down the other one. Almost 2 hours waiting out the ground stop. I made it home by 7:15, 15 minutes before the flight would have gotten in from IAH so I was still ahead.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

As it was mentioned, you will either leave an engine running or the APU. This is so that you still have a source of power on the aircraft for your avionics and cooling fans, rather than run on batteries, but also to power the PACKs so that those paying customers in the back don't start frying on a hot summer day, but more importantly, yourself up front.
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Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

[ QUOTE ]
As it was mentioned, you will either leave an engine running or the APU. This is so that you still have a source of power on the aircraft for your avionics and cooling fans, rather than run on batteries, but also to power the PACKs so that those paying customers in the back don't start frying on a hot summer day, but more importantly, yourself up front.
wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, this wasn't the case on a fully loaded USAir 737. The APU was running, but there wasn't a lot of cool air coming from the PACKs. It was miserable, but hey, it was a free ride.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

Thank God the APU was up. In the Saab we have to leave one turning for the PACKS and GEN. I have waited a few times in IAD only to hit min fuel, go back to the gate and refuel, and go to the end of the line. My personal record is 4 hours for a flight that is blocked at 40 minutes.

Sit and wait is unfortnuately a way of life at the bigger airports when weather comes in.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

Well, on the brightside, if you sit on the taxiiway with just the APU burning, at least the crew is getting paid. I saw a jetBlue A320 in MCO that had a mx problem on pushback. They wound up sitting on the ramp away from the gate still loaded for about 2 hours. Occasionally, the lav truck would pull up and dump. I saw a couple of snack runs out there as well. Crew was getting paid, but I'm betting the FAs were ready to strangle someone by the time they got in the air.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

My record on the MD88 was a 7.8 from LGA-FLL. 'Course almost 5 hr was spent on the taxiways at LGA, waiting for Wash Ctr to accept flights thru their airspace because of WX. We shut down both engines, ran the APU, got re-dispatched twice for fuel burn, fed the pax meal (pre-911), and let everybody sleep. Finally got off about 2300L landed at FLL around 0130L the next morning. My next trip was dropped because of a 30hr in 7day conflict.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

Longest I've spent on the ground is 2 hours right now, I think. I can't really remember, since all the delays blend together. I'm EWR based, and an ORD commuter, so I've gotten good at the "eh, sorry folks, just received word from ATC that we have a delay..." PA.

Particularly when it's because of bad weather, where fuel is tight, we'll always shut them down. I think the APU burns maybe 100# per hour of fuel, where the engines are burning anywhere from 500-700# per hour. Most APUs in the ERJ do a good job of keeping it cool, particularly in override.

First leg yesterday to STL, we had to shut them down. Sitting there, Ground asked a 767-400 how long they needed to start up their engines. They said "eh, 3 minutes, we have one shut down." Ground just said "Guys, shut em both down." Ground in EWR at least is good about keeping us in the loop out "wheels up" times so we can save gas. This is particularly important in summer months when we'll be devitating around weather most likely.

In STL yesterday, a crew returned to the gate, since they had been sitting out on the ramp for two hours and had no release in sight. Finally gave up, deplaned, and would try again later.
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Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

In and Out of ORD, going somwhere and shutting down is almost a daily event. Ive had similar, but far less frequent of these experiences with LGA.
 
Re: Ground Hold/Taxi Hold ?\'s

I flew the SAAB in LGA, so we couldn't shut 'em both down. We had to leave 1 running. It was always a bad sign when you heard, "Cross 22, Left on DD short of the wind sock. Shut 'em down."

The best I heard in Houston one day (thunderstorms everywhere)was ramp tower, "Continental 1868, FAA tower doesn't want you, but I need the gate. Push straight back and I get you over to where you can shut down. It's gonna be a while."
 
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