Going for the MEI

A150K

A150K

Well-Known Member
After 3 years and 1,000ish dual given, I've decided to finally get my CMEl and MEI so I can start instructing in the Duchess at the school I'm currently at and accumulate some Multi time. Any suggestions/ techniques you guys have about instructing in twins? Particularly methods you use to stay alive/not let the guard down during single engine work without making it too obvious to the student (I.e. Excessively hovering over the controls etc)?
 
MEI is an easy checkride. but 15 PIC needed, so budget appropriately and you'll be fine. Instructionally it's all about aerodynamics, systems and Vmc which is a trade off between directional control and performance, so you'll study that plenty.

In the aircraft, demonstrating Vmc is no issue, but observing is, so you gotta make sure you're ready. Same with one engine cuts on the runway you gotta have your hand ready to pull the other throttle if they don't react followed by the mixture if they hold on tight.

At altitude, turn off the fuel pump, gives you 15s of waiting time
 
ahw01 said:
MEI is an easy checkride. but 15 PIC needed, so budget appropriately and you'll be fine. Instructionally it's all about aerodynamics, systems and Vmc which is a trade off between directional control and performance, so you'll study that plenty.

In the aircraft, demonstrating Vmc is no issue, but observing is, so you gotta make sure you're ready. Same with one engine cuts on the runway you gotta have your hand ready to pull the other throttle if they don't react followed by the mixture if they hold on tight.

At altitude, turn off the fuel pump, gives you 15s of waiting time
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Yeah. I basically budgeted for 13.5 hours to get the MEI (excluding the checkride) the CMEL checkride will be around 1.5 in order to satisfy the PIC requirement. Thanks for the pointers!
 
My PPL Multi took 12 and CMEL took 10 I think, 8 for MEI, but I did one every couple of years.
 
A150K said:
After 3 years and 1,000ish dual given, I've decided to finally get my CMEl and MEI so I can start instructing in the Duchess at the school I'm currently at and accumulate some Multi time.
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I will be going for MEI too.
 
I have a query about (pre-requisite) for 15hrs PIC time prior to MEI checkride.

I am a little confused by FAR 61.195f. It says "15 hours PIC category and class". :ooh:

Category = Airplane (Is this correct?)
Class = Multi-Engine (Is this correct?)

I have a CMEL. Supposely, I am under-training for MES. Can the Multi-Engine time in seaplane be counted towards the pre-requisite for MEI (Land) checkride?
 
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cadbury said:
I have a query about (pre-requisite) for 15hrs PIC time prior to MEI checkride.

I am a little confused by FAR 61.195f. It says "15 hours PIC category and class". :ooh:

Category = Airplane (Is this correct?)
Class = Multi-Engine (Is this correct?)

I have a CMEL. Supposely, I am under-training for MES. Can the Multi-Engine time in seaplane be counted towards the pre-requisite for MEI (Land) checkride?
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61.195(f) is the requirement that before you give dual instruction in a multi-engine airplane that you have at least 5 hours in the specific make and model.

61.183(j) states that you have to have 15 hours PIC in the category and class appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought.

Since there is no land or sea in the class on an instructor certificate you can combine the two and as long as you are rated for airplane multi-engine land and airplane multi-engine sea on your commercial certificate you can give instruction in both (provided you have 5 hours PIC in the specific make and model).
 
n156499000 said:
5 hours PIC in the category and class appropriate to the flight instruct
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I think I have confused you.

Let's make it simpler. If I am still not rated for multi-engine sea (MES), can the multi-engine flying hours in seaplane be counted towards the 15 hours of PIC multi-engine instructor pre-requisite checkride?
 
If you aren't rated MES, then how can you log PIC time? More specifically, if you have an Airplane Multi Engine Land rating and are undergoing flight instruction for Airplane Multi Engine Sea, how are you logging it? Is it being logged as both PIC and DUAL RECEIVED or as DUAL RECEIVED only?
 
Look at it this way, there's no such thing as an MEI (Land). For example, the back of my CFI certificate states,

XII Ratings
Flight Instructor
Airplane Single and Multiengine; Instrument Airplane

Unlike a pilot certificate there is no distinction on an instructor certificate for land and sea. However, I can only give instruction in an aircraft for which I have a valid Commercial Pilot (or ATP) certificate and hold the appropriate category and class rating. Since my commercial clearly states Airplane Single and Multiengine Land, I cannot give instruction in a seaplane.

However, if I wanted to fly a seaplane, I would need to add either an Airplane Single Engine Sea or Airplane Multiengine Sea class to my Commercial Pilot certificate. Until I take the check ride, none of the time spent flying the seaplane can be logged as PIC since I don't hold the appropriate class rating. Once I complete my CSES or CMES rating however, I am then free to give instruction in that class of aircraft.

Since you don't hold a Commercial Multiengine Sea class rating you cannot log PIC during your training and therefore cannot count it towards the requirement in 61.183(j) of 15 hours PIC in the category and class appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought. Once you have the CMES rating you can count both land and sea PIC time flown towards it.
 
I don't see why you can't log PIC time in AMES or AMEL even if you are not rated in class. Money/insurance aside it's the same solo endorsement as for any other added category/class rating.
 
If flying as a student pilot (that includes PPL/CPL/ATP holders adding a new category/class) under a solo endorsement yes, but with an AMEL I can't go out and fly an AMES and log it as PIC without either getting instruction and flying it under a solo endorsement (fairly useless for an added class rating) OR passing a check ride with a DPE/FAA Examiner having first met the applicable training requirements.

Switching from Land to Sea isn't the same as simply getting a high power or tail wheel endorsement. In those cases yes you can log PIC as neither planes with >200hp engines or tail wheels are separate classes of aircraft.
 
Nope. Common mistake but PPL/CPL/ATP holders are not student pilots. They are PPL/CPL/ATP. Sometimes they work on adding a new rating to their pilot certificate. That fact alone does not make them a student pilot. For example, 61.81-61.95 does not apply to a PPL rated only in ASEL when he's soloing a helicopter. Student pilots are only people exercising privileges of a student pilot certificate.

I'm not sure how the tailwheel endorsement is relevant here, but the original question was "can hours in AMES be counted towards 15 hours PIC requirement?" The answer is Yes, as long as those hours are otherwise PIC.

Now, is it practical? Not unless you own a twin on floats. But that wasn't the question.

FWIW, I was asked something similar on my CFI helo add-on oral. Along the lines of, a rated PPL fixed wing working on helo add-on, as a CFI how do I sign him off to solo, and what are those solo hours good for.
 
Since he has a PPL or higher he wouldn't need a student pilot endorsement (bad choice of words on my part), but he would still need an endorsement per 61.31(d) to conduct solo operations since he does not have an AMES rating, same as a PPL ASEL adding a PPL Rotorcraft.
 
I think my question is still unclear.

Assuming a student has CMEL...

Question 1
For a student who is under training for MES, can his multi-engine time in seaplane counted as multi-engine time or mulit-engine seaplane time?
*Please note the difference between multi-engine time and multi-engine seaplane time?

Question 2
If it can be considered as multi-engine time, does it fulfill the MEI (not seaplane) checkride pre-requisite (in terms of flying hours)?
 
Question 1:
It can be counted as multi-engine (assuming you have a generic multi-engine column in your logbook) and multi-engine sea.

Question 2:
Since you do not (yet) hold an AMES rating you cannot log it as PIC (unless endorsed for solo flight per 61.31) and therefor does NOT count towards the 15 hours PIC required per 61.183(j).
 
I have another question.

Is there such thing as MEI (VFR)?

That means, teaching students to fly multi-engine airplane in VFR condition (no instrument instruction on ME airplane) only.

I would like to save cost on MEI training. If I were to take the full MEI training, I have to pay more and including to perform instrument approaches in my MEI checkride.
 
The Flight Instructor Airplane Multiengine rating is independent of the Flight Instructor Instrument Airplane and there's no requirement to do one before the other. However, if you get the Multiengine added to your instructor certificate first and later do the Instrument add-on in a single, your CFI certificate will state "Multiengine limited to VFR only" or something like that.
 
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