Go Jets Questions
- Thread starter brian434
- Start date
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Enjoy that.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Try advanced search. The ones with JHugz where he tells everyone he's going to be a Gojet pilot is going back a little ways, there's plenty after that you can read. Somewhere in there MikeD comes to GoJets rescue as does ATN, that was the last "good" round of GoJetting. Some people are fine with them some people aren't. As of this date my fenced operation still doesn't reciprocate with GoJets on our airplanes, although they can non-rev (thanks to them being a part of Delta now) so that's slowly losing it's impact. Everyone seems to agree they are still an alter ego airline, defense of them varies.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
All I know is the few times they have tried to jumpseat on a flight that I'm operating they refer to themselves as "United Express". When you're embarrassed to say who you work for, that tells me everything I need to know.
This isn't everyone who has done this, also had a few guys who told the truth. But when I see a Gojet crew in ORD or IAD and give "the nod" and they just look at their feet awkwardly, it says a lot.
This isn't everyone who has done this, also had a few guys who told the truth. But when I see a Gojet crew in ORD or IAD and give "the nod" and they just look at their feet awkwardly, it says a lot.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
LOL. Being wildly uniformed sure helped you at the last gig didn't it? Why don't learn a little before you oversimplify and think what you want to. In fact, if you are just going to think what you want to, why ask?
brian434
Well-Known Member
Sorry joe. Just trying to understand how/why folks are holding it over up and coming pilots for accepting a job somewhere like gojets. From my "homework" it looks like this stuff all happened 7 years ago. How many FOs at gj currently were involved in that mess? In another 7 years how many CAs would have been involved?
If I am selected and accept a position would I be stealing the job from someone that wants it and is currently furloughed from tsa? If that's the case I really will pull back. Now if it's just something that a good number of folks haven't let go of my fridge needs some more milk before I turn down any jobs.
If I am selected and accept a position would I be stealing the job from someone that wants it and is currently furloughed from tsa? If that's the case I really will pull back. Now if it's just something that a good number of folks haven't let go of my fridge needs some more milk before I turn down any jobs.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I might as well just answer your questions. Some people definitely treat them like scabs, however they are not scabs. Most of the regional level guys know exactly who they are, a healthy percentage treat them as pariahs. You've got to remember a lot of us spend years and are destined to spend a decade at a regional, and alter ego carriers are a big reason our pay is low or contract has been reduced, mine included. We now have to pay up on every contract to guarantee scope in every legal and theoretical way. I don't block any transmissions but I don't like them. In fact, and I've spoken at length about this on other threads, one ball of crap GoJet FO used to commute out of TUP, lied to everyone including me about him buying an ID-90 ticket when he was really jumpseating. The gate agent hid it well and almost got away with it until one of our captains (who was warned something funny was going on there) who was a union rep figured out what him and the gate agent were doing. He's a lying scumbag and I'll tell him as much if I ever see him again.
Your second question doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Perhaps revise the writing of it.
"So you guys a taking it out of the pilots for taking a job offer because management made some pretty bad calls?"?
Maybe you are asking
"So you guys are taking it out on the pilots for taking the job because TSA holdings management created the alter ego carrier?"
Sort of, the pilots were warned going to class that the GoJet company was actually going around TSA pilot's contract who couldn't get TSA holdings to give them a pay raise to fly a larger jet. Management made the best decision for management and it was a legal way to get around the TSA contract, even though ALPA sued and appealed for TSA to get those airplanes because it broke the contract. No it's simply a matter of faith and belief. TSA Holdings was wrong, the GoJet pilots who first started flying for that company were wrong to go there and fly those planes. Furthermore, every pilot afterward must bear that original sin and it keeps furloughed United guys (working at GoJets) out of Pinnacle fenced cockpits as a jumpseater. A fact United never fails to bitch about at BOD meetings I'm told.
Later on (years later) people don't warn pilots going in anymore because it's obvious they know the deal. GoJet's name is kind of like when a guy tells me he worked for Gulfstream, I just think, "So you bought your first job"? It will always be that way even if they are called Silver.
Mainline for the most part, doesn't care about GoJet's and regionals. They all believe that FO's start out making 14-16k a year (if they aren't paying for their first jobs) and CA's make about 50k. Also we are only here for 4 years at MOST unless we've had multiple failures. Apparently in their world it's still 1999-2000 and except they can't figure out where their pay rates and pension went. Regional land has become a decade and a half event for many at this company, and it had nothing to do with their skillz. The pay is liveable for many of us even though management created GoJets or BigSky to ruin that for us.
Anyway.... are we still on topic or not?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
You have to decide that for yourself. You already know how I'll judge you from the above post. What I think doesn't matter though, and at some point we'll forgo the ban from GoJets in our cockpits because Pinnacle has us now. I can always hold on to the fact we crushed Big Sky years ago. Mesaba won our battle with Alter-Ego crap, and TSA pilots lost. Just think, now you'll be able to be a part of the winning side Brian.
I give no sympathy to you on that. My only real job prospect for an airline after college was Gulfstream, and that meant paying. ATN did it, and he is all for you working for GoJets by the way (I guess ALPA is trying to recruit them now to join up), and he got on with Pinnacle, made captain, then on to Valuejets (AirTran) and now is a Southwest employee. If my math is correct he was a CA with Pinnacle before I ever even ventured into the airline fray. I was too busy working outside aviation and made a good living doing so. Dispatcher, rampie, Ops manager, EMI tech, CFI, blah blah blah.
I just find the conventional logic regarding them interesting; as well as what people hold others accountable for in this industry and why they do so. Im not rescuing them at all....just questioning the standards some use regarding them and others, as well as anyone/everyone having to "pay for the original sins".
Much like Gulfstream. When I hear Gulfstream, I don't automatically assume that someone there paid for a job, because I understand that the airline did also hire regular people to fly there. PFJ or not, Silver or not, I try to not automatically judge.
brian434
Well-Known Member
Gosh I love aviation. So E/P/others are cutting like crazy. Great Lakes pays poverty wages. Republic is a mess. Fly for GoJet and I might find the only airline ejection seat. Work for scummy 135 companies and risk my certificate. So what you're saying is the only airline that I might be able to work for and pay bills at the same time without finding a knife in my back is skywest?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Well let's be frank. When you say "I just find conventional logic regarding them interesting", you mean faulty. You've defended the current incarnation of GoJets, as do many others. Others of us still find their existence AND continued growth a dismal example of how precarious all of our mini-careers at regionals. Deep down I hope you don't bemoan the death of Big Sky, but then again it's a moot point. They are dead, dead dead dead dead, and MAIR no longer owns us.
Brian, I am assuming you are reading this, this post from Mike is an example of what many (maybe even the majority) of people do in this industry. I would even go so far as to guess it won't hurt you at a job interview because the HR people REALLY don't care. Well I suppose it could be that someday the HR person is a pilot who lost their job from TSA and couldn't take the hit to go back to first year pay, or someone like me, but that's pretty remote of a chance.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
What's wrong with Skywest? They pay their pilots a living wage, they aren't growing like GoJets right now but there's nothing wrong with that.
Pinnacle
Republic
American Eagle
All doing bad right now
Great Mistakes has always been bad.
To be clear, working for GoJet's as a pilot does not make you a scab. It. Does. Not. Make. You. A. Scab. Don't worry so much, it's a winning team with a winning attitude, and stepping on and over fellow pilots is just part of the industry. You want to be a part of it, just don't complain a few years from now when it happens to you and it somehow hurts your livelyhood. You know, the pilot shortage is just around the corner, get in and get your TPIC and get out!
Sure, for what it was created for and for the original people who knew that, I see the points made about GoJets (or others like them), and fully agree. But how do you hold people now accountable for things back then? By that logic, no one should ever fly for CAL, as the majority of their pilot group were scabs at one time. Or...should it be like Mesa's Freedom, where the latter members of "Freedom B", weren't held responsible for the alter-ego sins of the "Freedom A" folks? Same airline, different people; same general circumstances. But two widely different standards being upheld. Faulty? I think so.
What is the objective of the fight? Every war has to have measurable and achieveable objectives. What are they here? If your union fought that battle, and it was lost, what is gained by gureilla campaign of having no one work there? In an age where jobs are somewhat scarce, wouldn't it make sense to get good guys working there and work to morph it into a place that it could/should be, or that guys would want it to be (true with anyplace)? Why is that not an viable option?
With the way the industry is going, it's a gamble going anyplace. Today's great airline.....mainline or regional.......could easily be tomorrows tough place to work. Look at Eagle. So what's a guy to do (assuming he isn't going to pay to play, which I agree one shouldn't)? One has better odds of winning the progressive jackpot at the slots in Laughlin, than predicting the place that will be stable to work.
Until and unless the regionals are going to be a career for people (and accepted as such), vice a touch-and-go to mainline; there will be little incentive for people to work extra hard to make things great there (vice liveable), much less the motivation to do so. Places like GoJet and others will exist be that touch-and-go place. At the end of the day, there really is no difference between places.