Glad US ATC didn’t privatize

Apophis

Resident Iconoclast
It's not a zero sum game. Increasing one does not necessarily decrease the other.

If truly privatized, it will do what the private sector always does: improve efficiency; which leads to pay cuts and crappy benefits for rank and file employees, massive bonuses to executives, and a huge downgrade in quality of service.
I changed a few things more in line with reality; something you have no grasp of.
 

CFIT99

I'm probably commenting ironically...
It's not a zero sum game. Increasing one does not necessarily decrease the other.

If truly privatized, it will do what the private sector always does: improve efficiency; which leads to lower costs and increased safety.
that is one of the dumbest things anyone has ever written about anything...

you can fight me at your local sizzler's...
 

Murdoughnut

Well sized member
I mean it's worked well for private prisons ...


... and schools


... including colleges


... and utilities



... the jury is still out on space exploration even


Here, fixed it for you ... "if truly privatized, it will do what the private sector always does: provide an inferior product that somehow ends up costing taxpayers more than had they never privatized it to begin with.
 

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
It's not a zero sum game. Increasing one does not necessarily decrease the other.

If truly privatized, it will do what the private sector always does: improve efficiency; which leads to lower costs and increased safety.
Breh...no. No, breh.

Increased safety in the private sector? How in the hell do you figure? Safety regulations go away and you think a private company that is out for PROFITS and not to provide a service will have MORE stringent safety requirements? No man, that isn't how this works. You do know safety can be put aside in order to increase efficiency, and often is in various private sectors, right?
 

Murdoughnut

Well sized member
Breh...no. No, breh.

Increased safety in the private sector? How in the hell do you figure? Safety regulations go away and you think a private company that is out for PROFITS and not to provide a service will have MORE stringent safety requirements? No man, that isn't how this works. You do know safety can be put aside in order to increase efficiency, and often is in various private sectors, right?
Some basic white chick on my community message board was asking the other day why schools refuse to open when the bounce house place down the street says its safe.
 

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
What do you mean the flight is delayed, or cancelled? I just talked to my best friend, she said that its sunny and blue skies at my destination. Lol.
Ah, those people. Pouring rain, all arrivals and departures using the same 2 runways at SFO, people point "weLL tHaT pLAnE jUsT lANdEd". Yeah, it's probably a few hours late like your plane. "iTs NoT eVeN foGgY aNYmoRe". Yeah, but it was for the first 4 hours of the day and your plane is making out and backs to this hub all this time and now we have a GDP back log. People like to think they can simplify and control everything around them. Maybe a life in aviation is the reason I always assume things are more complex than I'd imagine in other industries.
 

ozone

Well-Known Member
I think the big difference y'all are running into with this discussion comes down to a service that is a legalized monopoly vs. good ol' fashioned competitive capitalism. With the examples listed above, I would argue that for profit colleges and space exploration have both demonstrated that the "market" will correct the outliers. Space exploration is probably a better example since there appears to be some good evidence that the Government has (mostly) gotten out of the way when it comes to space companies trying new things and allowing the market to determine who's better/faster/stronger/more efficient.

For-profit colleges, on the other hand, were heavily involved with various lobbying efforts, which then distorted the market as some colleges were given ways to weasel out of their fraudulent loan schemes and useless/fraudulent degree awards.

As far as ATC is concerned, I would pose the question that pops up in my line of work in the medical field all the time: Should we, as society, allow ATC to be a right or a privilege?

If it's a right, and it's a monopoly, then it behooves all of us to keep it under the direct supervision and control of the government.

If it's a privilege, then I think you can privatize ATC. But I think that it will follow the rest of the privatized ATC systems in other parts of the world and then make air travel in the USA (GA and commercial) more expensive and less useful. The railroad example is a perfect example of how badly things can go when you privatize a monopoly (largely due to outdated railroad-related laws over the years the limit/prevent new rack from being laid down).
 

Skåning

Well-Known Member
Amtrak isn’t a good example. A big part of their problem is that they don’t own 99% of the track they ride on, it’s in the hands of commercial companies. So Amtrak doesn’t have priority for the space or control over its use.
 

nabbyfan

Well-Known Member
I've posted this in other threads, maybe even this one, too lazy to go back and read it all.

Im a controller at a large Enroute facility (250+ Controllers), and I have literally never in my career met a single FAA Controller that is in favor of privatization. The only people that seem to be pushing it for us are our Union president and VP, who also seem to stand to gain a bit by getting a spot on the board at ATCCorp or whatever we would end up being.

Its just bizarre to me, up to maybe 6-7 years ago, NATCA's position was that ATC is "Inherently Governmental". How we've made such a drastic change to the Union being in favor of Privatizing, after seeing what happens to all of these things once they fall out of being governmental is crazy to me.

What sucks is that if things don't go the way of logic and reason in November, they're coming for us. Senator Turtle's (R-Kentucky) wife is in charge of DOT, and when our current contract with the FAA is up (I believe 2022? Sometime around then), we're done. Controllers at ZDC and LGA had a huge role in ending the government shutdown, and I honestly believe the Republicans are going to be out for vengeance if they can get it. Back to white book era imposed work rules. Interesting times ahead in the FAA.

And also, sympathy goes out to those NAVCanada Trainees, as well as the UK and NZ controllers recently fired. I spent essentially my entire young adult life from 18-24 doing everything I could to get hired by the FAA, if I got to the academy and then got let go like this, I would be beyond devastated.
 

PA44totracon

Well-Known Member
I have never had this conversation on this board but I have engaged in it many times over the years with people from many different backgrounds in and out of the aviation field. I too am a Controller at a large Z and currently serve in a Union role. Like the above poster I was "surprised" to hear the Union leadership change their stance to support privatization several years ago under the Obama administration. After flipping sides many times I find myself in the neutral category for privatization. It might work out great or it could go the road of some of what was stated above. I will say my general impression of the way things have been going in my facility is not great. Our equipment is vey old with new equipment suck in development phases or scrapped due to funding. By the time we get something it is often outdated and clunky. The quality of training has diminished for a variety of reasons and the adoption of the Safety Culture has lead to a big increase in losses of separation. I support SC for the most part but it was poorly implemented and did not have employee by in to the level it needed. All this stands in contrast to what I see in many privatized ATC organizations. Not that they don't have their problems but many of the issues I find important are handled much better. If the Government does not reverse course on some of these issues soon the U.S we loose our market share of ATC services to groups like NAVCANADA. The NATCA President himself started referring to NAVACANADA as a "predator" organization for the way they are taking over ATC operations in the Caribbean and north Pacific routes.
 

Fixtur

Prefamulated Amulite
First comes privatization, then comes user fees. Never let a revenue stream go untapped.
 
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