Getting the A&P

kellwolf

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Well, I've been kicking around the idea of getting my A&P for a while now. #1 it gives me a good fall back in case the whole regional thing blows up in my face and #2 if/when I buy a plane down the road, it reduces the cost of ownership. Now here's the catch: I shoulda done this sooner. As in before I had a job flying at an airline. There's a ton of tech schools here in MEM that will train ya for a good price, and every community college here has an AMT program (gotta love living in FedEx's HQ city). The trick is getting the time to actually DO it. The CC down the street from me has evening classes, but they're M-Th 5-9pm. Would work if I had a normal job.

Is there any other way to get the A&P piece by piece? I know it'll take a lot longer, but that's really the only choice I have. I even wouldn't mind working on it during vacation weeks if thats what I had to do.
 
Good for you Kellwolf. Trying to work and go to school is hard enough in the first place, but not having a "regular" schedule is even tougher. If you do not do it at a school then you would have to apprentice with somebody. It is going to take you 18 months of experience for each, with a certain amount of hours of training. I don't recall the hours off the top of my head, somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 hours though.

I did the opposite and got my A&P first, then got my pilot license. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
 
I have been researching the same question you just asked and almost everyone I talked to said that it is pretty hard to do the A&P part-time. Most programs are full-time. I do know of a school in Michigan that has a one-year full-time course if you could take off a full year to do it.
 
Unfortunately all Part 147 schools I know of are Fulltime and unfortunately you cannot miss anytime without making it up. Plus if you miss too much time you may not graduate at all.

Like Inewby said, if you find a shop that will allow you to work with them you can earn either your powerplant or airframe in 18 months. If you want both(which you will probably need) it will take at least 30 months. All of this can be found in FAR 65 subpart D. Here is the link on the FAA website:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...&node=14:2.0.1.1.4&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.4.4.1.4

The good news is if you ever become unemployed, most state unemployment benefits will pay for your schooling. So if you are unable to do it now you would be able to do it then. There were several guys in my school that went through that way.

If you do find a shop in your area that is willing to do this please let me know as I like to help people in get into the aviation maintenance field.

If you want more information or advice please feel free to PM me.
 
kellwolf said:
Is there any other way to get the A&P piece by piece? I know it'll take a lot longer, but that's really the only choice I have. I even wouldn't mind working on it during vacation weeks if thats what I had to do.
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The shop route sounds like the way to go with your schedule. The thirty months of experience can be done a piece at a time, so find a willing shop and start logging that time. The thirty months of experience is calculated based on a 40-hour work week, so you're going to need 4,800 hours.

Some people have been successful in using the time logged while building an experimental aircraft to obtain their mechanic certificate. That might be a hard sell, depending on your FSDO. It's also fairly easy to find a local builder that needs an extra pair of hands.

Good luck.
 
Yeah, I was thinking about going the apprentice route. I might start digging around Olive Branch and DeWitt Spain to see if I can find something there. If I were back in GKY, it'd be a done deal. I did a little bit of stuff in the hangar at Skymates, but like a moron, didn't log any of it.

I don't mind it taking 30 months or so, just as long as it gets done. Like I said, I'm not in any kind of hurry. If for some insane reason I do get furloughed, I'll use the state's money and get it done that way. Plenty of guys working on experimental planes in the area as well.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.
 
kellwolf said:
Yeah, I was thinking about going the apprentice route. I might start digging around Olive Branch and DeWitt Spain to see if I can find something there. If I were back in GKY, it'd be a done deal. I did a little bit of stuff in the hangar at Skymates, but like a moron, didn't log any of it.

I don't mind it taking 30 months or so, just as long as it gets done. Like I said, I'm not in any kind of hurry. If for some insane reason I do get furloughed, I'll use the state's money and get it done that way. Plenty of guys working on experimental planes in the area as well.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.
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Find an A&P Mech/inspector that does 100 hour/annual inspections on GA aircraft who wouldn't mind a little help from a volunteer. There always a need for an extra hand in these situations. Remember to trade that volunteer time for OJT.
 
Thats what i kinda did.. i was training for my PPL and i was able to convince them to let me help work on their planes to help get my A&P.. being an auto mechanic gave me a good background, and after all, it's just nuts and bolts. I've got about 90 hours or so of logged time in my AMT book, but had to stop because i moved to Las Vegas, and haven't had a moment to find a similar, accomodating flight school.. I bought the ASA Prepware to practice the test questions, and bought a copy of the AC 43.13 to study from.. my buddy refers to it as the aircraft mechanics bible.. huge amount of info there.. it seems more difficult to find a place to let you apprentice from, than any other type of job. I knew one repair station where the owner hired this guy out of A&P school, and started his pay at 13.50 an hour.. turns out he was being overpaid, the guy had no ability, despite (or in spite of) getting through school. When you take 3 days to do a 3 hour job.. it's a money losing deal for the employer. Hard work and perserverance is the key.. Good luck on your decision.
 
I'm probably gonna start going around to places on one of my days off next week and seeing what's out there. I'll pick up those books that Gryphon mentioned, too. I've been itchiting to work on something with my hands, and this might kill two birds with one stone if I can get it worked out. It's a shame the restoration project on the Memphis Belle fell through. That might have worked out perfectly.
 
kellwolf said:
I'm probably gonna start going around to places on one of my days off next week and seeing what's out there. I'll pick up those books that Gryphon mentioned, too. I've been itchiting to work on something with my hands, and this might kill two birds with one stone if I can get it worked out. It's a shame the restoration project on the Memphis Belle fell through. That might have worked out perfectly.
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I'll tell you from experience, sometimes the work can be hard and dirty, sweaty or cold, but there's a certain satisfaction you get knowing you put an airplane back in flying shape. Especially when you have to fly on that airplane after you're done working on it!

All the knowledge you gain from maintaining aircraft will certainly make you a better pilot, I believe. Good luck with your efforts!
 
AZBigDog said:
I'll tell you from experience, sometimes the work can be hard and dirty, sweaty or cold, but there's a certain satisfaction you get knowing you put an airplane back in flying shape. Especially when you have to fly on that airplane after you're done working on it!

All the knowledge you gain from maintaining aircraft will certainly make you a better pilot, I believe. Good luck with your efforts!
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I second that. Plus I can think of many careers that are worse.
 
Maybe you all can help on this one. I come across a lot of people who have four year degrees that dream of doing something different in their life, and sometimes they mention being an A&P on corproate jets. Of course I only recruit corporate jet mechanics and don't know where they got their education as it does not matter to me as a recrutier (heck, half the schools I see on resumes are out of business anyway!).

The people who ask easily have cash on hand to cover an 18 month program full-time and also have enough saved to probably cover most of their living expenses, if not all. Remember, they are a lot of 40 something business professionals that are simply burned out and going from $80K, $100K, or $120K a year to a starting wage is not an issue since their wife is fine with it or they are lucky enough to be pretty much debt free with money in the bank.

They do not want to go to a tech school that offers an Associate degree since they already have a BA in Business or Engineering, etc. What schools do you recommend I refer these people to where they can do all the training and then pass the required tests for the A&P in 18 months?

I'd love to be more useful to these people when they ask, so thanks for the list of the best schools out there for this situation.
 
TexasFlyer said:
Maybe you all can help on this one. I come across a lot of people who have four year degrees that dream of doing something different in their life, and sometimes they mention being an A&P on corproate jets. Of course I only recruit corporate jet mechanics and don't know where they got their education as it does not matter to me as a recrutier (heck, half the schools I see on resumes are out of business anyway!).

The people who ask easily have cash on hand to cover an 18 month program full-time and also have enough saved to probably cover most of their living expenses, if not all. Remember, they are a lot of 40 something business professionals that are simply burned out and going from $80K, $100K, or $120K a year to a starting wage is not an issue since their wife is fine with it or they are lucky enough to be pretty much debt free with money in the bank.

They do not want to go to a tech school that offers an Associate degree since they already have a BA in Business or Engineering, etc. What schools do you recommend I refer these people to where they can do all the training and then pass the required tests for the A&P in 18 months?

I'd love to be more useful to these people when they ask, so thanks for the list of the best schools out there for this situation.
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Since you are located in San Antonio, TX, you should be familiar with my alma mater, Hallmark Institute of Aeronautics there at KSAT. When I was there you could choose from the 12 month certificate program or the 14 month associates program. (the only difference being a couple of college level courses.) The 12 month certificate program was the bare bones requirement to test for the airframe and powerplant certificates.
Hope this info helps...

AZ
 
Straight from the FAR/AMT 2006 :
65.77 Experience Requirements.
Each applicant for a mechanic certificate or rating must present either an appropriate certificate or certificate of completion from a certified aviation maintenance technician school or documentary evidence, satisfactory to the Administrator, of -
(a) At least 18 months of practical experience with the procedures, practices, materials, tools, machine tools, and equipment generally used in constructing, maintaining, or altering airframes, or powerplants appropriate to the rating being sought; or
(b) At least 30 months or practical experience concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both the airframe and powerplant ratings.

The FAR/AMT book is another usefull little item that has tons of info in it, not just for the A&P rating, but for certifications of aircraft, products and parts, airworthiness standards, and lots of other things.
You need 30 months for both the airframe and powerplant, or 18 months per item.. thats going the practical route and finding somebody to work for.. school is less, i believe, 12 months for each.. i could be mistaken.. gotta check. Quick side note: You need to be working full time, and be prepared to prove it to the FAA, I think you can call your local FSDO and they should have the info.
 
Gryphon said:
The FAR/AMT book is another usefull little item that has tons of info in it, not just for the A&P rating, but for certifications of aircraft, products and parts, airworthiness standards, and lots of other things.
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Or you can get that information for free at FAA.gov
 
AZBigDog said:
I'll tell you from experience, sometimes the work can be hard and dirty, sweaty or cold, but there's a certain satisfaction you get knowing you put an airplane back in flying shape. Especially when you have to fly on that airplane after you're done working on it!

All the knowledge you gain from maintaining aircraft will certainly make you a better pilot, I believe. Good luck with your efforts!
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Yeah I would not mind doing that especially the test flight.:yeahthat:
That's why I decided to have this as a career for me! I still want to fly but I need more hours and some time off to finish.
 
Its been 17 years since I've been thru an A&P school and I had to go to school 7am-3pm mon -fri and then I worked polishing airplanes from 3:30pm-11:45pm monday-friday. :insane:16 hour days for 18 months was tough but that is about the only option if you are already working. Some airlines have had or have some programs that allow want a be mechanics to train over time on all the various areas needed to pass the A&P course along with some class room training but the way the industry is now I don't know how many of those programs exist since there have been more lay offs then hiring in the large carriers.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I don't suppose you could log hours you spend building a kitplane to use towards that?
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Any aircraft experience is worth having but I'm not sure that would meet the requirements. Here's the general requirements:

"You must have a minimum of 18 months practical experience on Airframe or Powerplant appropriate to the rating sought or at least 30 months of practical experience concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both Airframe and Powerplant to be signed off for both."

Your experience will have to be within FAA guidelines of proper experience or they won't sign you off. Gray areas just don't fly with the FAA. If you think your area of experience falls into that category then I would contact the FAA.
 
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