Getting along with Gusty crosswind conditions

[Airdale]

Good afternoon folks. Not sure which part of the forum would be good for this topic, so I figured I 'd post it up here for the professionals.

I am currently on the Solo Cross Country phase of my primary flight training, with a total of 22 hours of flight time in a CE-172. I have a problem, a fear or anxiety you might call it, for gusting wind conditions, especially a crosswind. Here's how it started.

I went for my first solo x-country last week, a trip of 56nm along the coast of Florida to Georgia. The weather brief I obtained called for VFR conditions, with winds around 8 knots from the North until 11:00am, at which time the winds would pick up and blow 15 knts gusting to 24. My flight departed at 8:00am, leaving me plenty of time to complete the trip prior to the forecasted winds moving in. When I was 15 miles from my destination, the AWOS indictated 7knt winds from 030. I entered the pattern for rnwy 7 (airport only has one rnwy). Everything was looking good until I turned final. The wind was definitely not 7 knts as reported. I was getting blown sideways considerably and wind shear was making my task of mainting 60knts on final very very difficult. I flew the approach a little faster than normal to compensate for the wind and try to keep the aircraft under positive control. I had a good crab angle, and once I approached the threshold I switched to the wing low method and once with in the proper distance of the rnwy, I began to flare to bleed off excess speed. During the flare my crosswind correction was not enough to keep the airplane tracking center and I immediately began trying to keep the ground track straight so I didnt' side load the main gear. I touched down just right of centerline on the downwind wheel first as the wind grabbed my low wing and forced the right main on the ground. I immediately went full left aileron, and "forced" the airplane onto the ground to prevent a ground loop. Once the mains were down I lowered the nose wheel and a gust of wind once again picked up the upwind wing and lifted the wheel off, while I still have full left aileron. So I forced it down again and had to "dance" on the pedals to maintain directional control. To sum it up, it was a scary experience at the time and even though I handled it well ( I maintained control), it literally scared me. I foresaw myself doing a crazy ground loop and becoming a statistic for the NTSB.

Even though I was able to battle the wind and safely land the aircraft without damaging it, this even has me very timid with wind conditions. Anything near 10kts. and I get nervous. Since then, I have flown 2.5 hrs of x-country and I've had some minor crosswind conditions in which I have done okay with. Today I took off for a long x-country and turned back when I heard my first destination report steady winds at 9kts, peak gusts of 16. I landed safely back at the departure airport but I feel as though I need to overcome this fear of flying solo in crosswind/gusting conditions. I spent almost 2hrs with an instructor training in a 15kt crosswind, and I did very well, but flying solo I get anxiety about these wind conditions. I feel as though I made the right decision today to discontinue the flight because I didn't feel comfortable with those winds, but at the same time I feel like if I'm going to be a commercial pilot, I need to face the wind and deal with it.

Your thoughts? Sorry for the long post, just trying to figure out if what I'm feeling is the normal for where I'm at in my training. Thanks

Airdale

 

[flyover]

1) You never found out what the actual winds were, it sounds likely you were at or above crosswind limits for the airplane.

2) Find a windy, gusty day and a flight instructor and do it until you feel comfortable.

3) A go-around is always a good option if there is any question about actual winds vs. reported. The tower is under no obligation, that I'm aware of, to insure you have the latest or even accurate winds.

4) You mentioned full aileron, but not whether you hit full rudder deflection. Did you use all available rudder?

5) You didn't scratch the airplane. Is good.

 

[amd87]

Pretty much the same thing happend to me on one of my x/c trips as a student pilot. I was kissing the ground when I got out of the plane! Since I didn't have too much practice with gusty x-wind conditions at the time, it was a hairy experience to say the least. Crosswinds can be very different from one minute to the next, and I definitely still have not mastered them. It's one of those things where there's always going to be room for improvement. My only advice to you is to find a gusty day and beat yourself up in the pattern with a CFI.

 

[Airdale]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I have pretty much reasoned with myself that my decision to turn back today because of the increasing winds, was a good one in exercising good judgement in knowing my limitations and what I am comfortable with.

I spent 2 hours in x-winds with an instructor a few weeks ago, and I didn't do too bad. I guess I have come to the conclusion that like stated above, every x-wind landing will be different, and as long as it is a safe landing, than I must have done something right. Since that first x-country I have learned alot. One of the things I learned was its never wrong to terminate a flight because of weather or just because I don't feel right, and every landing should have something to be learned from. My last x-country I was faced with a x-wind at my destination and while it wasn't the prettiest landing ever, again it was a safe landing and I was able to land much better than my first experience.

I guess what I was looking for was, is it wrong to stay on the ground if I don't feel comfortable with the given wind conditions? And is it wrong to head back for home if things just don't feel right, whether its because of deteriorating visibility or increasing winds? I want to be the best pilot I can be, and I'm training for a career as a commercial pilot, but at the same time I don't want to push my comfort zone for the sake of completing the flight. Agree?

 

[FlyNavy]

I've been there recently too man, found out the hard way why the Wrights picked Kitty Hawk (FFA) as their base - lots of wind! One thing I didn't see mentioned was - try using 20, 10 or even 0 flaps if runway length allows. Extra speed is required of course (about 5 kts works for me), and you'll land a little nose higher than usual, just practice a few times in calm air to get used to the different attitude. Also, I ended up using the wing low method all the way down final instead of crab and then wing low at the #'s. Seemed to help get stabilized way out vs. trying to wrestle snakes at 50 ft.

Disclaimer - not a CFI or anything, just my own technique!

 

[jrh]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess what I was looking for was, is it wrong to stay on the ground if I don't feel comfortable with the given wind conditions? And is it wrong to head back for home if things just don't feel right, whether its because of deteriorating visibility or increasing winds? I want to be the best pilot I can be, and I'm training for a career as a commercial pilot, but at the same time I don't want to push my comfort zone for the sake of completing the flight. Agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

No way, push yourself as hard as possible. When you hear that little voice in your head telling you to turn back, completely ignore it and keep pressing forward. If you do otherwise, you're a complete pansy!

The bottom line is that you don't have a lot of experience yet, and that's ok. Nobody expects you to be commercial pilot quality with 22 hours. As you get more experience, you'll naturally feel more and more comfortable with different situations.

I believe that the physical handling of an aircraft comes to just about everybody with enough time. The really serious problems people can have stem from poor judgement, and not knowing their limitations. I'm much more concerned about student pilots who have lousy judgement than I am with student pilots who have lousy stick and rudder skills. Good judgement can make up for lousy stick and rudder skills, but it doesn't work the other way around.

That's not to say anything bad about your handling of the aircraft. For where you're at in your training, it's probably right on. My point is that your judgement is good, and that's what matters. And that mindset should never go away. Believe me, I'm a 700 hour CFI and there are plenty of situations I wouldnt feel comfortable in. I'm sure there are times that make 1700 hour freight pilots and 9700 hour airline pilots nervous.

Just keep learning from your experiences and stay willing to expand your horizons a small bit at a time. You'll be fine.

 

[Airdale]

Excellent response, thanks.

The reason I posed such a stupid question is a few instructors kind of look at me funny for turning back at a 12knt crosswind. Today I went to fly my long cross-country and visibility in the air was less than 4 miles, so I returned. Again I felt as though people were looking at me as if I were scared. Which isn't the case at all, its just the past few days weather conditions have exceeded my comfort zone. I soloed in 9hrs, and I think my "stick and rudder" skills are quite well. I honestly haven't had very many "bad" landings. But flying alone raises my blood pressure and stress level enough, I don't want the thought of having to return to a gusting wind to land or not being able to see the airport at 4 miles to be jumping my nerves around, so when I don't feel comfortable, I know its time to get out of the air before I make a wrong decision. But today our Chief pilot/instructor said he thought I made a good decision in returning and he said that many student pilots would just continue on, in other words he liked my judgement. So that made me feel better. Thanks alot for the response's guys, I appreciate. This flying stuff is a lot of fun when its done right.

 

[tonyw]

The bottom line is you've got to do what feels right for you. My personal comfort level may be very different than someone else's. Am I a wuss for not going up when someone else would? Fine, call me a wuss, but if I'm up there sweating bullets thinking why the hell did I go up, I'm an accident waiting to happen.

I'd rather have my butt on the ground being called a wuss by someone than being up there saying to myself, why did I take off?

 

[FlyNavy]

Better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, than flying wishing you were on the ground!

 

[alphaone]

I would say get as much information you can about the winds, even if that means flying over a non towered airport to check wind direction. And always leave yourself an out. If your flying the approach and just not feeling it go around and re assess the situation before you get to deep. Just some ways I approach this kind of stuff.

 

[aloft]

First off, it sounds like you've been well-trained thus far, so kudos to your CFI. In reality, most landings are crosswind landings and you seem to have a solid grasp on how to fly them, provided they're not too extreme.

When I was a primary student, my instructor(s) specified both wind and crosswind component limitations as part of my solo endorsement; your experience is precisely why.

From your account, you handled the situation quite well, but I'd pay closer attention to wind conditions when flying solo until you've gained more experience.

As far as what to do when hit by a gust like that, you've basically got two options: a) reject the landing, hit the throttle and go around, or b) attempt to salvage the landing. Which option you take depends on your skill level, comfort level, airspeed, and all the other usual factors (runway condition, runway remaining, etc).

 

[mastermags]

[ QUOTE ]
Excellent response, thanks.

The reason I posed such a stupid question is a few instructors kind of look at me funny for turning back at a 12knt crosswind. Today I went to fly my long cross-country and visibility in the air was less than 4 miles, so I returned. Again I felt as though people were looking at me as if I were scared. Which isn't the case at all, its just the past few days weather conditions have exceeded my comfort zone. I soloed in 9hrs, and I think my "stick and rudder" skills are quite well. I honestly haven't had very many "bad" landings. But flying alone raises my blood pressure and stress level enough, I don't want the thought of having to return to a gusting wind to land or not being able to see the airport at 4 miles to be jumping my nerves around, so when I don't feel comfortable, I know its time to get out of the air before I make a wrong decision. But today our Chief pilot/instructor said he thought I made a good decision in returning and he said that many student pilots would just continue on, in other words he liked my judgement. So that made me feel better. Thanks alot for the response's guys, I appreciate. This flying stuff is a lot of fun when its done right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am suprised you are even endorsed for 4 miles vis as a student pilot. The lowest I was ever endorsed for was 5.

Don't ever let any other pilot intimidate you into anything you don't feel comfortable with. The only one that has anything to lose is you.