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Sidious

Sidious

Well-Known Member
I regularly land on a 10,000 foot runway that I usually request a long landing on as our FBO is far down at the end of the runway.

There is one controller that will NEVER allow a long landing.

My question is... do I have to request full length or can I just land long?

Can I get a pilot deviation or any regulatory grief from this controller I do this?

Thanks for the help and for the record I HIGHLY respect all the other controllers at this field but when one of them goes out of their way to makes GA pilots lives difficult I have an issue...

Thanks again
 
Good question. The only place I can think of this being a problem is if the local controller has traffic behind you, or is waiting to launch one out between you landing and someone else landing; and his planning is predicated on you landing in the beginning of the runway and reasonably exiting as any other airplane of your type would. If you land long or otherwise take an unusual amount of time on the runway or in the runway area, and force an aircraft to go around behind you because you didn't state an abnormal intention such as this, then thats the only place i can see it being a problem by not requesting it. Now if you're the only airplane at the airport, I'd think it to be a different deal.

Just a pilot's perspective here, but would love to hear an ATC perspective.
 
I used to ask for a long landing every night in PBI so I could pull right off into Signature and drop my cargo. One night, the controller politely advised me that when cleared to land, the runway is mine and I can land wherever I want.

From then on, I just did it.

But it was at 11 pm. I probably wouldn't even try it during rush hour, as I know how important it is to land and get off the runway with a string of 5 other airplanes on final behind me.
 
I'm not a controller anymore, but when I was, I was taught that even though you can tell a pilot where to turn off and that the pilot is expected to exit the runway as expeditiously as possible, the fact always remains that when you issue a landing clearance, the pilot is entitled to all of the runway that is available.

Back when it was OK to teach technique, it was advised to learn what the local folks and frequent visitors liked to do and try to adjust the traffic flow so as to accommodate them. Sometimes that couldn't always be done, but just putting forth the effort seemed to make things go smoother all around. If I had a request for a long landing that would make things tighter that I wanted, I'd say something like, "getting off the runway pronto would work better for me, but I'll try to work the long landing in for ya the next time."

For Sidious, I would recommend a call to the facility and engage the supes in a conversation about it. Tell them what you said in your original post and see where it goes.
 
The runway is yours, but we always appreciate your help in vacating it sooner if needed. And if there's a reason you're going to take longer than expected to get off the runway/start take off, it'd be nice to know about it ahead of time.

But if not, I don't see how we could ding you for it in any way. It's your runway. I'm putting forth the assumption that everyone agrees you shouldn't do anything crazy or completely unexpected like stop/start takeoff roll multiple times or sit on the runway for 2 minutes before rolling. Not that there's an official limit, but I think if it's taken to extremes there could be some action taken.

As for the OPs scenario, I'm not sure how the tower can justify telling you where to touch down/roll out. If your flying halfway down the runway before touching down, it really shouldn't be causing that much of a delay anyway.

Long story short, if you just did it without asking at my airport, I can't think of any way you'd have violated any rules or could be deviated. And if traffic is being run tightly enough that it's a concern, I would tell your about that traffic and solicit your assistance in making sure the person following you doesn't have to go around.
 
Thanks for the input guys, it's much appreciated.

I will have a talk with the tower sup. because this controller has been on a power kick for a long time now for no reason... Every other controller can do their job and sometimes even be pleasant about it "gasp!"

This controller can do neither unfortunately...
 
Sidious said:
Thanks for the input guys, it's much appreciated.

I will have a talk with the tower sup. because this controller has been on a power kick for a long time now for no reason... Every other controller can do their job and sometimes even be pleasant about it "gasp!"

This controller can do neither unfortunately...
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just tell him that your landing fee pays for use of the entire runway ... now if he wants you to land short ask him to adjust your bill accordingly ... I joke ...
 
C650CPT said:
just tell him that your landing fee pays for use of the entire runway ... now if he wants you to land short ask him to adjust your bill accordingly ... I joke ...
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Exactly why we need GA user fees...........

:)
 
when you are cleared to land the full length is yours. with that said, the AIM says you are supposed to make a normal approach to landing. a cessna flying 5,000 ft down a 10,000 ft runway before starting his flare really sucks when you are trying to run a tight sequence or like somebody said... waiting to roll departures. it's not dangerous because the runway is yours, but it's one of those "dude, you're killing me moments." i've had a J3 cub do this with airliners waiting for departure, staying in ground effect cuz he knows i'm not supposed to talk to him during a "critical phase of flight." he ended up touching down beyond the last turnoff so he could exit at the end where his FBO was. this is just one example and i have found the courteous pilots will ask for a long landing, and most of the time they can be accomodated, which i am happy to do. i understand not wanting to taxi for an extra 5 mins when there is nothing going on. just give atc a heads up and most will appreciate it.
 
Joe28 said:
when you are cleared to land the full length is yours. with that said, the AIM says you are supposed to make a normal approach to landing. a cessna flying 5,000 ft down a 10,000 ft runway before starting his flare really sucks when you are trying to run a tight sequence or like somebody said...
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I do this for two reasons. 1) Would you rather have me at 130kts on final or 65 kts? 2) A 737 doesn't really want to taxi behind a Skyhawk for 3 miles if they can avoid it going back to the ramp.

More often than not, final is going to ask for best forward speedk anyway. When you ask a light GA aircraft for that, expect two things - lots of runway used, and an alarm in the tower for them being low. Light aircraft can't fly a normal glideslope that fast ;)
 
When landing north at DFW I always ask for a long landing so I can avoid a 2 mile taxi.

While the whole runway is mine after the landing clearance is issued, I figure ANYTIME a pilot is doing anything different, ATC needs to know. 90% of the time, tower "approves" my "request". But, if a jet is right behind me and they need me out of the way ASAP, then I am happy to do so.

I've found that calling the facility sup with specific problems useually fixes the issue. Esspecially if you are a regular visitor with specific needs.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I do this for two reasons. 1) Would you rather have me at 130kts on final or 65 kts? 2) A 737 doesn't really want to taxi behind a Skyhawk for 3 miles if they can avoid it going back to the ramp.

More often than not, final is going to ask for best forward speedk anyway. When you ask a light GA aircraft for that, expect two things - lots of runway used, and an alarm in the tower for them being low. Light aircraft can't fly a normal glideslope that fast ;)
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Well I can only speak for the airport I work at but...

1. Completely depends on the situation, which I would clue the pilot in on. I.E. Keep your speed up for the sequence, in which like you said, it's implied you will use more runway due to floating. I don't know if it's implied for all controllers but it is for me as a small GA pilot myself. Likewise, a pilot should also understand if you are given such a restriction the controller needs you off the runway as soon as feasible for following traffic. 2 way street. And if I have situations like that A LOT, with small guys getting run over on final, then it's time to have a nice chat with the approach controller. :laff:

On the flipside, about 60-70 knots kias for a single engine is what
I expect as a normal approach speed. However, I don't really care what approach speed the pilot flies on final when working tower, because the tower controller can always finesse the situation to make it work. If there's a little guy on final doing 65 knots with room behind him that's great, I can launch departures all day.


Most of the time, at my airport, no speed adjustments have to be made and light GA aircraft are almost never given speed restrictions. Hell, even most jets aren't either.

2. I guess that doesn't really apply here since rarely do we have little guys following jets on taxiways because 95% of the time they request intersections anyway and most configurations accomodate about a 15 second taxi from exiting the runway to the gate.
 
On a related experience we were landing 01 in a Falcon 20 at KLAS and following a 757 (I think I remember that correctly) cargo. We hit the worst wake turbulence I have ever seen, and my left seat (pilot flying) added power to possibly go around, then got above it and was able to land. Signature is way down at the end the runway and tower said "hey if you guys want long landing we would appreciate a heads up". Didn't seem to bother them but just wanted to know.

I advised of the wake turbulence we encountered. Some wise guy on final (GA, probably going to the FBO's at the end of the runway as well) keyed the mic and said something like "hmm, I might encounter some of that wake turbulence myself". :rolleyes:
 
Normally, if we know an FBO is at the far end, I'll check in with tower and add "...can we roll to Bravo (or whatever) or do you need us off sooner?".

Seems to work out well. That way, I know before the wheels hit the ground if I need to hustle off of the runway or if I can take my time going down to whatever intersection works best. Plus it gives the tower controller the chance to say "nah, spacing's too tight I need you off asap."

-mini
 
Agree with everyone else. The runway is yours, yes, and use what you need. But if you're going to use more than you need, there's no reason to Make A Point, just ask them if it's a problem. Controller/Pilot relations are remarkably smooth and easy until there's an Ego on one side of the radio, in my experience. File under "don't be a jerk", which is a remarkably under-read file, I think.
 
USMCmech said:
When landing north at DFW I always ask for a long landing so I can avoid a 2 mile taxi.

While the whole runway is mine after the landing clearance is issued, I figure ANYTIME a pilot is doing anything different, ATC needs to know. 90% of the time, tower "approves" my "request". But, if a jet is right behind me and they need me out of the way ASAP, then I am happy to do so.

I've found that calling the facility sup with specific problems useually fixes the issue. Esspecially if you are a regular visitor with specific needs.
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Agree 100%! I In KTUL if i'm landing 18L I always say "Tower Martex000, Just seeing if I have time to land a little long tonight" and its always followed by "Martex 000 long landing approved" Same with KOKC landing 35L.

I do however keep the approach as fast as possible, in the 208 I normally barrel into over the numbers at 170 pull the throttle back and let the prop slow me down to VFE then drop 10 then 20 and land halfway down the runway for a quick turnoff. The tower I'm sure likes it better when I do that than when I land 36R at KTUL and slow to 80 on final so i can make F1....
 
minitour said:
Now I'm not the fartest smeller in the group, but can't you hang flaps 10 out at 175?
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Company SOP is to subtract 10kts from the flap speeds in order to avoid damage from "those cowboy freight pilots".


Personally I don't bother with flaps in that scenerio. Just let the 8 foot speed brake on the nose slow you down to 80 or so and roll to the end.
 
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