Ford/Cooksey, et al vs ALPA

gtpilot

gtpilot

Well-Known Member
Sheesh, I hate getting mail from attorneys in the first place, but why would they waste time sending this letter out to probies who don't even pay dues yet?

Edit: The letter details a proposed settlement between some Comair and ASA pilots vs ALPA where ALPA will pay out $600K and admit no wrong. The issue is ALPA's agreement with big D to limit the scope of aircraft that Comair and ASA fly.
 
One of our comrades at ASA ran the numbers and posted them on the ASA ALPA boards.

His math came down to about $50 a person after all court fees, attorney fees, and each plaintiff getting their fair share.

The reason they are sending it out to individuals like ourselves (probies) is detailed in the letter. Any ASA pilot who was employed and ASA, and represented by ALPA on or after November of (if I remember correctly) 2004 received the letter.
 
surreal1221 said:
One of our comrades at ASA ran the numbers and posted them on the ASA ALPA boards.

His math came down to about $50 a person after all court fees, attorney fees, and each plaintiff getting their fair share.

The reason they are sending it out to individuals like ourselves (probies) is detailed in the letter. Any ASA pilot who was employed and ASA, and represented by ALPA on or after November of (if I remember correctly) 2004 received the letter.
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I caught the details, just seems like a waste to pay out ($50??) to someone who, #1 wasn't represented by ALPA when the issue got started in 2001 or when the suit was filed in 2003 and #2 has yet to pay a penny to ALPA.

While I agree that ALPA 'breached its duty of fair representation' with their arrangement with big D, I think the establishment of the 'Scope Subcommittee' and payment of fees should have been enough.
 
I also partially agree. . .if there was a dues checkoff to turn that money into the dues I'd end up paying for next year that'd be spectacular. :)
 
gtpilot said:
While I agree that ALPA 'breached its duty of fair representation' with their arrangement with big D
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Ridiculous. There was no breach of DFR. This settlement implies no guilt whatsoever. The RJDC came to the realization that they were going nowhere with their silly little lawsuit, so they finally came to ALPA with a settlement proposal that was reasonable. This settlement won't even pay all of Dan's and Ken's legal bills. Far from it. They'll still be paying six-figure legal bills. ALPA settled simply because it was cheaper than continuing to fight it all the way through till the end.

Dan Ford, Jesse Ashcraft, Ken Cooksey, John Brelling, and a whole host of other RJDC "officers" should be expelled from the Association permanently. This lawsuit was a disgrace, and the RJDC a joke.
 
I have much to learn about this RJDC (what is that - the Regional Jet Defense Council?).

Over a few beers shortly Todd.
 
Fair warning: getting me started on an anti-RJDC tangent while I'm drinking might be a bad idea. ;)

RJDC = Regional Jet Defense Coalition

It was basically the organization that Ford, Cooksey, Ashcraft, et al created to advance their "cause" while they were pursuing their litigation. In reality, it was a way for them to collect money from other pilots to support their frivolous lawsuit by brainwashing gullible RJ pilots into believing that they were being harmed by DALPA since they were limited in the number and size of airplanes that they could fly.
 
PCL_128 said:
Ridiculous. There was no breach of DFR. This settlement implies no guilt whatsoever. The RJDC came to the realization that they were going nowhere with their silly little lawsuit, so they finally came to ALPA with a settlement proposal that was reasonable.
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While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, as you put it, in my mind there was a breach in fair representation. I get why the DALPA pilot group would want that type of protection, but for your own union to place limits on your regional while others are free from constraint strikes me as unrepresentative. At any rate, it seems the problem was corrected properly through subsequent LOAs and the lawsuit is a waste of everyone's time.
 
gtpilot said:
While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, as you put it, in my mind there was a breach in fair representation. I get why the DALPA pilot group would want that type of protection, but for your own union to place limits on your regional while others are free from constraint strikes me as unrepresentative. At any rate, it seems the problem was corrected properly through subsequent LOAs and the lawsuit is a waste of everyone's time.
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Duty of Fair Representation is a pretty distinct legal term. Under the law, the plaintiff must prove that the union was acting "arbitrarily." In case law, the courts have consistently stated that unions have a very wide range of acceptable behaviors. Something has to be completely out of line for it to fit the definition of DFR breach. It's pretty clear that ALPA's actions came nowhere close to fitting this definition. You can have whatever opinion you want about whether ALPA was acting "fairly' in its actions on scope, but that doesn't have anything to do with DFR.
 
PCL_128 said:
Fair warning: getting me started on an anti-RJDC tangent while I'm drinking might be a bad idea. ;)

RJDC = Regional Jet Defense Coalition

It was basically the organization that Ford, Cooksey, Ashcraft, et al created to advance their "cause" while they were pursuing their litigation. In reality, it was a way for them to collect money from other pilots to support their frivolous lawsuit by brainwashing gullible RJ pilots into believing that they were being harmed by DALPA since they were limited in the number and size of airplanes that they could fly.
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Interesting. . .much interesting.
 
PCL_128 said:
Fair warning: getting me started on an anti-RJDC tangent while I'm drinking might be a bad idea. ;)
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That's pretty much the only time, well, one of the FEW times you'll see Doug Taylor go to the dark side if when that battle perks up.

An RJDC discussion plus a cocktail a gin-based cocktail and I'd just about give myself an aneurysm.
 
I already tossed my letter (like I said, I hate mail from attorneys) but I think Ford was Comair. Note that they have 900s and we still don't(end of year rumors not withstanding).
 
Yeah, mine's in the mail as well.

Really could care less to be honest, but perhaps that's because I lack the basic foundation of what the hell it was all about anyway.

Todd, you've got some edumacation to do eventually.
 
surreal1221 said:
So who exactly did Ford, et al work for?

ALPA, Comair, ASA?
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Ford - CMR
Cooksey - ASA
Ashcraft - CMR
Breiling - ASA

Ford and Breiling were ALPA volunteers at one point, but their venture to the dark side happened many years ago. All this nonsense really got started at the 2000 BOD when Ford and friends tried to force a seniority integration with Delta. Long story.

surreal1221 said:
Todd, you've got some edumacation to do eventually.
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No problemo.
 
Ahh yes, I remember. Sitting on the air train in DFW listening to one of their FO's presume that I was a member of his airline (because of my age) and how "we" were going to put the screws to those Delta guys.

I just let him talk!
 
I know 2 guys here, that were trying to get me to believe that the RJDC is/was a good idea. Nothing like doing a 4 day hearing bad propaganda. Tossed that letter so quickly when I found out what it was about.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Ahh yes, I remember. Sitting on the air train in DFW listening to one of their FO's presume that I was a member of his airline (because of my age) and how "we" were going to put the screws to those Delta guys.

I just let him talk!
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Oh, that's just too good. Reminds me of a jumpseat experience last year after I had just started working for the Tran. I was going up to DTW to visit some Pinnacle friends, and I was sitting on the actual jumpseat on a regional. As we're taxiing out in ATL, the FO spots a brand new Pinnacle CRJ-900 in Delta colors and starts going off on a rant about how Pinnacle pilots are #####s who are stealing their flying, yada, yada, yada. I just sat there and listened. So, we finally take off and level off in cruise, and the FO turns around and asks me where I worked before coming to the Tranny. The look on his face when I told him I was former Pinnacle was priceless. :D
 
I love it when that stuff happens! :)

Always gets eeerily quiet after something like that, then you can do something goofy like applying lip balm and saying, "Oh, ummm, chapstick?" for comic relief.
 
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