For Cessna captains: May you fly this 172?

Berkut

Berkut

Well-Known Member
You often borrow a 172 belonging to Bob, a good friend of yours. You know Bob (who isn't a mechanic) just got the airplane back from an annual, so before your next flight you take a quick look at the logbook. You find two recent entries:

7/1/2007 TT:1352 hours
I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with the requirements of an annual inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated 7/1/2007 has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator. Fred Turnwrench IA#867530906

Hmm, looks like the aircraft failed the annual inspection. You find the list tucked in the front of the logbook. The only problem listed is a badly worn nose tire. Not a big deal, but not something the IA could return the aircraft to service with. The very next entry is by your friend, the aircraft's owner:

7/4/2007 TT:1352 hours
Replaced worn nosewheel tire, cleaned and greased nose wheel bearings in accordance with Cessna Maintenance Manual. Bob. T. Owner, Private Pilot #412582654

Sure enough, it looks like there's a new tire on the plane.

Given the information above, is this airplane legal to go fly?
 
As far as I know a pilot may replace tires. I haven't looked in the regs, but a friend of mine used to change his airplane tires, of course he did it the first time or two under supervision of an A&P.

Look it up in the regs to see if it is on the list of things a pilot may do. If it is and you trust him, fly it!
 
The work preformed by the pilot is specifically stated in the preventitive MX portion of the FARS and is therefore legal.


(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.


So i believe that the airplane is good to go if everything else is legal. The owner doing the tire/bearing MX is legal.
 
This is an interesting question because I have heard of shady mechanics refusing to sign an annual unless a laundry list of items is fixed at their shop. Any airplane owners that get told their airplane will not be signed off until these items are fix run the other direction. After giving an annual a mechanic is required to sign the logbook whether the plane passed or not. If the plane did not pass then he is required to provide a list of discrepencies that if fixed will make the airplane airworthy. Because changing a tire is considered preventative maintenance able to be performed by a certified pilot then I believe this would be legal.

An annual requires that the plain be cleaned. If a mechanic listed dirty airplane as a discrepancy I don't that the owner would have to go to another mechanic to sign off on "airplane cleaned"

I wish I had some sort of regs to back this up, maybe someone else has more time and is a little more motivated.

-Jason
 
Did he do a test flight after changing the tire? You know, make sure the tire isn't going to fall off. Or, are you gonna be the guy to find out.:drool:

HS
 
WAFlyBoy said:
Does an IA need to sign off on corrected discrepancies in order for the airplane to be legal?
Click to expand...

Only on those discrepancies that are major repairs or alterations to the airplane. A mechanic may perform the repair/alteration, but CANNOT approve the repair/alteration for return to service.
 
ElyJs said:
This is an interesting question because I have heard of shady mechanics refusing to sign an annual unless a laundry list of items is fixed at their shop. Any airplane owners that get told their airplane will not be signed off until these items are fix run the other direction. After giving an annual a mechanic is required to sign the logbook whether the plane passed or not. If the plane did not pass then he is required to provide a list of discrepencies that if fixed will make the airplane airworthy. Because changing a tire is considered preventative maintenance able to be performed by a certified pilot then I believe this would be legal.

An annual requires that the plain be cleaned. If a mechanic listed dirty airplane as a discrepancy I don't that the owner would have to go to another mechanic to sign off on "airplane cleaned"

I wish I had some sort of regs to back this up, maybe someone else has more time and is a little more motivated.

-Jason
Click to expand...

Jason, a mechanic cannot sign any logbook stating something to the effect of saying an annual has been performed. That's an IA's job. However, he CAN perform any maintenance required or requested by the owner.

Also, the IA that performed the annual MUST provide a list of discrepancies to the owner/operator of said aircraft, regardless if it "passed" or not. A simple thing such as a missing or broken safetywire or cotter pin on a wheel hub could make the plane unairworthy. Why? Would YOU wanna fly in a bird with missing safety devices especially on something as crucial as wheels/landing gear? Me neither.
 
Berkut said:
You often borrow a 172 belonging to Bob, a good friend of yours. You know Bob (who isn't a mechanic) just got the airplane back from an annual, so before your next flight you take a quick look at the logbook. You find two recent entries:

7/1/2007 TT:1352 hours
I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with the requirements of an annual inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated 7/1/2007 has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator. Fred Turnwrench IA#867530906

Hmm, looks like the aircraft failed the annual inspection. You find the list tucked in the front of the logbook. The only problem listed is a badly worn nose tire. Not a big deal, but not something the IA could return the aircraft to service with. The very next entry is by your friend, the aircraft's owner:

7/4/2007 TT:1352 hours
Replaced worn nosewheel tire, cleaned and greased nose wheel bearings in accordance with Cessna Maintenance Manual. Bob. T. Owner, Private Pilot #412582654

Sure enough, it looks like there's a new tire on the plane.

Given the information above, is this airplane legal to go fly?
Click to expand...
Yes. FLY SAFE T.C.
 
Yep. Based on the information provided, this aircraft is good to go.

91.409 states that no person may operate an aircraft unless it has had an annual inspection within the preceding 12 calendar months. This aircraft has had the annual inspection. There is no "pass/fail" element to an annual inspection. It's either been performed or it hasn't. This one has. The fact that discrepancies were found and left uncorrected doesn't change that.

The only unairworthy item found was the nose tire, which falls under preventative maintenance. 43.7(f) allows for Bob to replace the tire himself and return the aircraft to service.

ElyJs said:
An annual requires that the plain be cleaned. If a mechanic listed dirty airplane as a discrepancy I don't that the owner would have to go to another mechanic to sign off on "airplane cleaned"
Click to expand...
There was a writeup for "aircraft dirty" on the last airliner heavy check I worked as an inspector.

They deferred it.
 
Texasspilot said:
The work preformed by the pilot is specifically stated in the preventitive MX portion of the FARS and is therefore legal.


(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.


So i believe that the airplane is good to go if everything else is legal. The owner doing the tire/bearing MX is legal.
Click to expand...


Yes. Hope Bob did a good job securing the pin. Have a nice flight.
 
ElyJs said:
An annual requires that the plain be cleaned. If a mechanic listed dirty airplane as a discrepancy I don't that the owner would have to go to another mechanic to sign off on "airplane cleaned"

I wish I had some sort of regs to back this up, maybe someone else has more time and is a little more motivated.

-Jason
Click to expand...

FAR 43 Appendix D states clearly that the person performing an annual/100 hr inspection clean the airplane durring the inspection. If he writes that up, he is admiting he didn't do the inpection properly.

Berkut said:
There was a writeup for "aircraft dirty" on the last airliner heavy check I worked as an inspector.

They deferred it.
Click to expand...

Comparing an airliner inspection to a GA inspection is like comparing apples to oranges. The rules are completely different.
 
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