Flying over Canada, eh? ver. 2.0

Bernoulli Fan

Bernoulli Fan

Controller
Hello all,

An opportunity has come up to do a VFR cross-country for one of my students that would transit Canadian airspace between New York and Detroit.

After reading the previous version of this thread, I have a couple questions:

1. Someone stated that the airplane would need a 406 mHz ELT. This will not be true until 2011 as far as I can tell. http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=10327 Anyone else able to confirm that?

2. Several people said the poster should just go south around the lake. Is that just in case of engine failure, or is there some other concern?

3. This opportunity just came up, and I don't have an FCC radiotelephone permit. Can I print it after paying the fee online, or do I have to wait for it to arrive in the mail? The plan would have us leaving in three days.

Thanks.
 
Bernoulli Fan said:
Hello all,

An opportunity has come up to do a VFR cross-country for one of my students that would transit Canadian airspace between New York and Detroit.

After reading the previous version of this thread, I have a couple questions:

1. Someone stated that the airplane would need a 406 mHz ELT. This will not be true until 2011 as far as I can tell. http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=10327 Anyone else able to confirm that?

2. Several people said the poster should just go south around the lake. Is that just in case of engine failure, or is there some other concern?

3. This opportunity just came up, and I don't have an FCC radiotelephone permit. Can I print it after paying the fee online, or do I have to wait for it to arrive in the mail? The plan would have us leaving in three days.

Thanks.
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I can attempt to answer questions 2 and 3.

2. Engine failure concerns is a good reason, but if you're worried about dealing with Toronto Center (especially with the FCC license concern), then that's also a good reason since it keeps you in US airspace.

3. I don't think printing the receipt counts for your flight, though when I was applying for my job with XJT, the receipt was acceptable as proof that I will get it.
 
Update. I called Transport Canada about the 406 mHz ELT, and they said it is not currently required "but it is COMING!" As soon as the legislation passes, it sounds like.
 
When I flew over the southern tip of ontario, it was all handled by cleveland center, so no fee. But coming from New York I do not know. Anybody know about where they might transfer you off to toronto?
 
crazyjeep said:
When I flew over the southern tip of ontario, it was all handled by cleveland center, so no fee. But coming from New York I do not know. Anybody know about where they might transfer you off to toronto?
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Somewhere around the ROC/SYR area, IIRC, is Toronto Center.

*edit*
After looking, it's somewhere over the lake. I'll see if I can post the map.
artccmap.gif

...and it worked.

-mini
 
Bernoulli Fan said:
2. Several people said the poster should just go south around the lake. Is that just in case of engine failure, or is there some other concern?
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Chances of you having an engine failure on your one time over water is pretty slim to none.
It's more about peace of mind.
 
Douglas said:
Chances of you having an engine failure on your one time over water is pretty slim to none.
It's more about peace of mind.
Click to expand...


use good judgement too. do you have flotation gear? how confident are you that the radio in the plane is gonna fully function, should you have an emergency? whats the water temp this time of year? daytime/nighttime? weather?

i don't like the idea of flying over cold water in a single without a life raft and proper survival gear.

i flew st croix to st maarten in a C177 once, about 100 miles over water... in the day, in great weather, with warm water (granted full of sharks), with a life raft that inflated when you threw it out the door, and we wore life jackets...
 
TXaviator said:
use good judgement too. do you have flotation gear? how confident are you that the radio in the plane is gonna fully function, should you have an emergency? whats the water temp this time of year? daytime/nighttime? weather?

i don't like the idea of flying over cold water in a single without a life raft and proper survival gear.

i flew st croix to st maarten in a C177 once, about 100 miles over water... in the day, in great weather, with warm water (granted full of sharks), with a life raft that inflated when you threw it out the door, and we wore life jackets...
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Now that's what I call preparation!!! :)
 
Some good information in here. Maybe this is something that should start to be taught to students in the NE US, as its so easy for us to fly over Canada or into Canadian airspace.
 
Update number two. We made it to Detroit through Canadian airspace, were not charged any money, were not intercepted by fighters, and did not have to ditch in 33° Erie water.

We didn't even file a DVFR flight plan, as we were planning to skirt all the way around the south side. About 30 nm west of Cleveland we got handed off to Detroit approach and they gave us direct to DET. I asked him to confirm we did not need a filed DVFR flight plan and he said correct, as long as you are in contact with him and squawking. He actually asked us to go direct to stay out of his way.

40-knot headwinds at all altitudes = fun.
 
Bernoulli Fan said:
Update number two. We made it to Detroit through Canadian airspace, were not charged any money, were not intercepted by fighters, and did not have to ditch in 33° Erie water.

We didn't even file a DVFR flight plan, as we were planning to skirt all the way around the south side. About 30 nm west of Cleveland we got handed off to Detroit approach and they gave us direct to DET. I asked him to confirm we did not need a filed DVFR flight plan and he said correct, as long as you are in contact with him and squawking. He actually asked us to go direct to stay out of his way.

40-knot headwinds at all altitudes = fun.
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Awesome. Welcome to Detroit - it sucks. lol

What did you fly direct from so I can somewhat see your route?
 
TXaviator said:
use good judgement too.

i flew st croix to st maarten in a C177 once, about 100 miles over water... in the day, in great weather, with warm water (granted full of sharks), with a life raft that inflated when you threw it out the door, and we wore life jackets...
Click to expand...

WestIndian425 said:
Now that's what I call preparation!!! :)
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eh, prudence, judgment and regs...

When I was doing low level work (ie really, REALLY not high) work in the Gulf of Mexico, we had to wear lifejackets as a precaution. They're a pain, but worth it if you have to go down.
 
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