Flight time limitations

Xcaliber

Xcaliber

El Chupacabra
So, I've got a question on the 30 in 7 limitation. In the last 6 days, I've flown roughly 27 hours. Today, I was originally scheduled for 3 legs of about 3 hours total, which took me over the 30 in 7 limitation by 4 minutes. The company reflowed me, so now I'm under by about 10 minutes. My question is, if the block ends up being scheduled block +11 mins on the first two legs, am I legal to fly leg 3?

I just don't know if the "legal to start, legal to finish" applies for the 30 in 7 like it does with the 8 in 1. My understanding is that it should be a leg-by-leg thing, but maybe there's an FAA interpretation out there that says it's a duty-period-by-duty-period thing.
 
Xcaliber said:
So, I've got a question on the 30 in 7 limitation. In the last 6 days, I've flown roughly 27 hours. Today, I was originally scheduled for 3 legs of about 3 hours total, which took me over the 30 in 7 limitation by 4 minutes. The company reflowed me, so now I'm under by about 10 minutes. My question is, if the block ends up being scheduled block +11 mins on the first two legs, am I legal to fly leg 3? I just don't know if the "legal to start, legal to finish" applies for the 30 in 7 like it does with the 8 in 1. My understanding is that it should be a leg-by-leg thing, but maybe there's an FAA interpretation out there that says it's a duty-period-by-duty-period thing.
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No. They would end up having to deadhead you or overnight you.
 
agree with DPA...you can't actively know you're going to go over even by 1 minute when it comes to 30/7. If you went over while enroute due to holding, reroutes, etc. then you are ok because it was out of your control.
 
Agree with ATN. The company can't schedule you to exceed 30 hours in a 7 day period, but if you are legal to start the duty period, you are legal to finish it.
 
DPApilot said:
Per leg, day, or paring?
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Not sure what you mean. The regulations never mention pairings or legs (under the current rules). What matters is whether you began the day legal, whether that legality is an 8 hour limit, 30 hour limit, 100 hour limit, or 1000 hour limit. You can exceed any of those limits during daily operations, provided that you were legal to start.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Not sure what you mean. The regulations never mention pairings or legs (under the current rules). What matters is whether you began the day legal, whether that legality is an 8 hour limit, 30 hour limit, 100 hour limit, or 1000 hour limit. You can exceed any of those limits during daily operations, provided that you were legal to start.
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That's almost true. If you start the day with 0 hours and by leg 4 of 5 have 7.2 and the last leg is blocked for .9 you are legal. However if you start the day with 0 and by leg 4 of 5 have 8.0 you are done.

Same with 30 in 7. All of this as long as you didn't have any reschedules.

This letter affirms the "Fly 8 hours and youre done"
This letter affirms that you cannot take off knowing you will exceed duty limits.
 
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Dugie8 said:
This letter affirms the "Fly 8 hours and youre done"
This letter affirms that you cannot take off knowing you will exceed duty limits.
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Unfortunately, both of these letters pertain to supplemental operations, not domestic, which I did not make it clear in my OP. Even so, in reading both, they actually confirm ATN's view. You can exceed [all] flight time limits; you cannot [knowingly] exceed rest requirements.

The Ryan letter concluded that the flightcrew could take off on the final flight segment even though they knew that they would exceed 8 hours of flight time while they were in the air on the final flight segment.
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the "circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder exception" applies only to the regulatory flight time limits. It does not apply to the regulations' mandatory rest requirements.
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So, yes, I would have been legal to fly the whole trip. 1. we found an example of this exact situation in our SOP (FAA approved document) which says it's legal, and 2. It's a moot point, I never made the 11 minutes anyways :-)
 
Xcaliber said:
Unfortunately, both of these letters pertain to supplemental operations, not domestic, which I did not make it clear in my OP. Even so, in reading both, they actually confirm ATN's view. You can exceed [all] flight time limits; you cannot [knowingly] exceed rest requirements.





So, yes, I would have been legal to fly the whole trip. 1. we found an example of this exact situation in our SOP (FAA approved document) which says it's legal, and 2. It's a moot point, I never made the 11 minutes anyways :)
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Read those closely. Just because it is Supplemental, the "ruling" applies to all facets of "commercial" aviation. The Chief Council is pretty clear that what they say for one section applies to others, it 121 and 135.

You can exceed 8 hours only if you when you launch you don't already have 8 or more hours on you (10 in 135, etc).
 
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