Flight Manuals and Manassas Office

USNAInstructor

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

My name is Jim - I'm new to jetcareers.com. I've been doing a lot of research and I'm really liking what I see about ATP. My plan is to start my training next March at the Manassas office after I get out of the Navy. Two questions right now that I hope someone might answer for me:

1) What flight manuals should I get right now to study? I've been looking on Ebay for Seminole books but like every other airplane they are model year dependent. What year models does ATP use so I can get the right gouge?

2) I'm living in Annapolis right now working as an Instructor at the Naval Academy and was considering a move to Phoenix to do the training there. However, I'd like to reduce the number of moves I have to do - that being said I'm really leaning towards Manassas. Can anyone comment on the facility there?

Thanks and safe flying,
Jim
 
Will you be training just for the ATP rating?

ATP will provide you with a Piper Seminole Training Supplement once you reserve a date for any course. This will contain the majority of information that you will need for the duration of your training.

ATP flys the 78/79 2000/01/02/05 model Seminoles...there are slight differences that are explained in the supplement as well.
 
Thanks for the info on the manuals - I'm going to buy them on Ebay and start studying them up.

I'm going to be doing the 90 Day ACPP. I got my PPL in Jan 00 and currently have 125TT.

My military experience has to do with driving ships, not planes unfortunately.
 
Manassas is a small facility, though very adequate. The airport is class D, I can't comment on the latest batch of instructors, though they seem like nice guys. They use an examiner named Lowdermilk who gives fair rides, and he's a good guy.

PM if you have Manassas city questions.
-LC
 
As soon as you place the $1000 deposit for the career program ATP will send you a box of books you'll need, which includes a copy of the 1978 PA-44-180 Information Manual. I would try to find that if you want to get ahead.
 
I highly recommend Machado's books, for both private and instrument. They are very readable and will be fantastic references for the rest of your career. Also recommended is Lengel's book, The Professional Pilot's Guide to Everything, which does a great job of translating FARs into English.
 
Hey Jim. Since you are leaving the navy, do you plan to use the GI Bill? I had my sights on ATP until I found out that ATP is a part 61 school. Hope this helps.
 
Actually I don't have the GI Bill as I don't qualify. (I went through the Naval ROTC route.) I'm either going to do a Home Equity Loan to finance the program are take a Federal Loan out. Any recommendations on what you think the best way to go is???
 
Lost Comm - thanks for the info on Manassas - I figured it was a smaller facility. Do they ever offer the possibility of going out there for a tour?? As for the the living arrangements - does anyone have the gouge on that?
 
I understand that they have an apartment or two nearby in town. It's maybe a mile or two away in decent neighborhoods.

I think you could probably stop by whenever for a tour, as long as they aren't out flying the door is open.

The office is in the main terminal building. Incidentally the terminal was built with scheduled service in mind a few years back when Disney wanted to build a theme park adjacent to Bull Run National Park. Local outcry put the kabosh on the park, but not before the terminal was built. Now it has a rather small museum in it and officer for the airport manager and a couple of other operations, including ATP.

-LC

PS what do you teach at boat school?
 
LC,

I teach Naval Leadership at the Academy - now I went to school in Southern California so the nearest equivalent would be Organizational Behavior.

Thanks for the info on Manassas.

Jim
 
Tim,

Great post on your experience. It definitely is a motivator. How is your instructing going in CO? Do you feel you were prepared out of ATP or have you refined your teaching style?

Jim
 
I dont need more then 1 day to determine if an instructor is incompetant or not. If I knew more then he as a private pilot and found I was teaching him a lesson, what is more then one day going to prove, other then sucking more money out of me. But, as I stated before, I am going by my exp. at manassas, and the instructor I had. That being said, there was one knowledgable instructor there whom I had for the initial interview, but he had since left.
 
I guess for your sake Bluehen it's a good thing instructors take more than 1 day to find out if a student is incompotent.
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I have read your threads and understand there are alot of ignorant instructors out there, but the fact that you feel you you were "teaching him a lesson" for the day you were at ATP is comical to me. Whether the instructor at Manassas was truly incompotent has yet to be seen.. However, the fact that he went through 7 checkrides and actually made it to the location says something.. Sure, he could be a complete numbnuts, but I've been in the "ATP System" long enough to know that some guy with the brain capacity you speak of is either a.) very good at pulling-the-wool or b.) very compotent and did not feel the need to dazzle you with Vmc and Vsse and such things on your first day there..
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I showed up at ATP and thought my instructor just "fell off the turnip truck." I was wrong...
 
[ QUOTE ]

I showed up at ATP and thought my instructor just "fell off the turnip truck." I was wrong...

[/ QUOTE ]

Tram,
Im glad that you were wrong. But when an instructor has to look up something basic like Req. VFR Equipement, there is something wrong. Maybe he he knew it all, but the fact of the matter is when you are spending 36k+ on a flight school, you want to get your monies worth. Maybe I am different then many people on here in that while I understand that there is a lot of studying to do in the 10 month program, I also understand that an instructor should be knowledgeable. Like I said, I may be different, but it doesnt make me feel comfortable just cause the guy can fly a seminole.

"A monkey can fly a plane, its a human that has the knowledge".
 
Bluehen - I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything..

I've just flown with students who wanted to "teach me" some things.. While I am completely open to learning from anyone, some students just arn't ready to be teachers.. I'm just saying I know where your comming from...

TOMATOFLAAMES 91.205(b) and (c) and all that..

When you get to a certain point - there are items that are not "must know 1000% memory items" some stuff gets filed into the "look that up later" type stuff..
 
Not that the Hen needs anybody defending his position, but the truth is, you can tell pretty quickly if something works or does not work for you. Think about it, you know pretty much on a first date if the guy or gal sitting across from you is going to work for just tonight, two months or forever. You can tell at a job interview if the corporate culture of the company you are interviewing with is one that matches your needs. Frequently, we make the decision to continue something out of fear of admitting we were wrong. Think about that girl (or guy) you dated for too long because you did not want to admit “it just did not work.” Or the job you took, despite reservations, that made you miserable. I applaud the Hen’s decision, early in his professional training, to have the balls to say “this is not for me.” And, yes, a CFI can tell if a person has what it takes to be a pilot. As an instructor in another part of the business, I can tell right away much of the time, if my student has what it takes. I fully trust that the Hen could ascertain that this, for the reasons he has so well put forth, did not work for him.

ATP’s program is very formulaic. They are teaching you to be a first officer at “insert name of regional airline here.” I had a very good Captain explain to me that the role of the Captain, in addition to the ongoing management of any given flight and actual flight duties, is that of instructor. They are continually training the person sitting next to them. The hiring teams at the regional airlines know that. ATP knows that. With that knowledge, ATP’s program has flourished. The regional’s ability to hire zero to hero pilots has flourished.

That said, if you are the right kind of person, ATP’s program is an excellent one.

There are a variety of reasons a program may not work for a person. Some have said, in other threads, that those who fail out or quit “do not have what it takes.” That’s not such a bad thing. They may not have what it takes for ATP, but they may have what it takes for another program, someplace else. Some folks make it at Harvard, others are better suited to a state university, others may have more success at a small college. It takes courage to admit something does not work. It takes humility and introspection to fail, dust yourself off and figure out a way to make it work.

For others, they want more out of aviation than just a right seat at COEX. ATP’s program is not going to work for you either. If you are singularly focused on the right seat, have $40 grand to spend, then, by all means go for ATP. If you have the ability to give up maybe two years (private, ACPP, CFI, initial at airline, IOE) of your life, then go for it. But be clear that you can do that. For many, that’s not what they want. They need health insurance, they have family commitments, they need to have an income to pay the bills, they do not want to live in a “fraternity house” setting for months on end. Heck, they may just want a day off!

Some folks need more structure. Not everybody can self teach. Not everybody should. Some pilots needs more hands on training, a little camaraderie, a syllabus to plan their studies or just a little hand holding. Some people look for professionalism in their training environment. Some people look for a little depth. Some people have a thirst for knowledge and want to know everything there is to learn about flying. If that is you, ATP will not be for you.

ATP has trained hundreds and hundreds of professional pilots who are plying the skies at all levels of the industry. They know what they are doing, but they are not for everybody. Forums such as this are where those with negative experiences can come together with those who have had a great experience and share their views. The outcome, hopefully, will be more fully informed student pilots who will perhaps not repeat the mistakes of others – or better still, duplicate the success of others.
 
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