Flight Instructor Pay

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
I think at one time someone has posted something like this here; nevertheless, it is funny. I would like to know what flight schools/flight instructors are offering/making this kind of money. This was taken from salary.com

The median expected salary for a typical Flight Instructor in Phoenix, AZ, is $78,569. This basic market pricing report was prepared using our Certified Compensation Professionals' analysis of survey data collected from thousands of HR departments at employers of all sizes, industries and geographies.


Base pay only July 2005


Flight Instructor 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
Phoenix, AZ $72,233 $78,569 $88,457
IMPORTANT: Your pay can be dramatically affected by compensable factors such as employer size, industry, employee credentials, years of experience and others.
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Perhaps we need to let them know how many PAID hours flight instructors work per week, not to mention many hours worked are unpaid?
 
I think you missed the disclaimer on there. That salary range doesn't include the CFI's building time - that's for the instructors teaching at CAE, SimmCom, Flight Safety, etc etc.

~wheelsup
 
What is it about flight instruction that makes people think that cheaper is better? Really now, you are trusting a complete stranger, your flight instructor, with your life. How does it make sense to pay this person the minimum amount possible?

Draconian solution: (I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS.): Change the regulations to dis-allow flight instruction time as Pilot in Command time. The vast majority of CFIs are in the buiness to build hours; if flight instruction did not count towards one's PIC time, or even total time, the overall quality of flight instruction would improve and the pay for flight instructors would skyrocket.

Disclaimer: I have no idea where I would get the requisite hours for my hoped-for airline career if not for flight instruction...
 
with your idea there would be not enough flight instructors to teach students
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Draconian solution: (I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS.): Change the regulations to dis-allow flight instruction time as Pilot in Command time. The vast majority of CFIs are in the buiness to build hours; if flight instruction did not count towards one's PIC time, or even total time, the overall quality of flight instruction would improve and the pay for flight instructors would skyrocket.

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Interesting. I never really thought of that - and it would certainly make being a CFI a career position if the pay and work rules were to get better.

Another solution would be to switch the 135 mins with CFI mins (I know there are none). Make the part 135 mins (VFR and IFR) no more, but make it a reg for CFI's to have XXXX total time. That would allow lower time pilots to get in at freight gigs, and actually fly, instead of build time CFI'ing. That would also lower the CFI's out there actually looking to build time. Not sure if the insurance guys would be on board with that though lol.

~wheelsup
 
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$78,569

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78,569 per year/52 weeks per year = $1510.94 per week

$1510.94 per week/40 hours per week = $37.77 per hour

$37 per hour is about average CFI pay. Of course, they don't realize that we don't get paid for 8 hours per day, 5 days per week. It'd be interesting to see some other jobs with "general salaries" that are as distorted as this is.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Draconian solution: (I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS.): Change the regulations to dis-allow flight instruction time as Pilot in Command time. The vast majority of CFIs are in the buiness to build hours; if flight instruction did not count towards one's PIC time, or even total time, the overall quality of flight instruction would improve and the pay for flight instructors would skyrocket.


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This has been suggested before - and it won't work. Why do CFI's want to instruct - they want to build time to get a job at a freight company or a regional. Most freights and regionals don't have a PIC demand anyway, they're mostly total time etc. BUT - even if they currently have a PIC requirement based on instruction given they'll just change the requirement to be based on dual given or something.

Those companies are perfectly happy with the people they're currently hiring. The fact that you don't log instruction as PIC isn't going to change the quality of those people one little bit - so they'll continue to instruct and continue to get hired at 1200TT just like now.

There's nothing magic about PIC time - it's some myth - employers want experience, and how you LOG that experience doesn't really matter as long as you have it.
 
I think you are missing my point. As long as CFIing is seen as a stepping stone to bigger and better things in an aviation career, it will never be appreciated at a higher level. Replace my not-so-clear use of the term 'PIC' with the general idea of 'flight experience required to advance to a higher paying career' and you will get what I meant. Specifically, if CFIing didn't make an individual more employable by the (airlines, corporate, Civil Air Patrol [joke!]), there would be far fewer CFIs around.

If I were to walk into my boss's office right now and ask for a raise, he would show me the stack of resumes he has received. The message here is clear: CFI's (even after spending ungodly sums of money and time to earn the credentials to instruct) are a dime a dozen. If I want to earn a decent salary and work more human-like hours [i.e., cut back to 60 hours a week or so] there are dozens of replacements waiting in line to have my position.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS. I WANT TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LEVEL IN MY AVIATION CAREER. However, looking objectively, what I suggest would clearly improve the quality of flight instruction and the quality of life for flight instructors.

The issue for me, and hundreds, if not thousands, of folks like me, would then be how to find the hours [experience] necessary for an aviation career.
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If I were to walk into my boss's office right now and ask for a raise, he would show me the stack of resumes he has received. The message here is clear: CFI's (even after spending ungodly sums of money and time to earn the credentials to instruct) are a dime a dozen. If I want to earn a decent salary and work more human-like hours [i.e., cut back to 60 hours a week or so] there are dozens of replacements waiting in line to have my position.



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Sadly, you can apply this exact same situational comparison to regional pilots.
 
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If I were to walk into my boss's office right now and ask for a raise, he would show me the stack of resumes he has received.

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There is a solution to that, though it takes proper planning before execution. If you have a good student base with their own airplanes, you're set. If you have a good student base that rents, then you've got some thinking.

Secure the use of an airplane for your students that don't own their own. Some FBOs will allow you to use theirs, consider buying a 152 or something like that. Once you have an airplane figured out, tell that punk ass owner that you quit. Then quit, take your students with you, and start freelancing, this usually equals a massive pay raise. If you've already got a good student base, then your short term is set. Word of mouth from this student base will help you in the future, and you can start a cheap marketing campaign to bring in the rest.

For most people, the only problem is the airplane. Solve that problem, and you can tell your boss to shove it.
 
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For most people, the only problem is the airplane. Solve that problem, and you can tell your boss to shove it.

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And the proper insurance, as you have to have it insured for your students to solo in as well. Be prepared for $4000-6000+ insurance for 150/152-172 aircraft.
 
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And the proper insurance, as you have to have it insured for your students to solo in as well. Be prepared for $4000-6000+ insurance for 150/152-172 aircraft.

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I include insurance as part of the "airplane problem". That estimate might be slightly high, the club I was in had 3 172 and an RG insured for liability and hull, as well as 3 152s insured for liability for roughly $24000/yr. There may have been a bulk discount though, I'm not sure.
 
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"as well as 3 152s insured for liability"

How did you cover potential hull loses for the 152's?

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Money in the bank!

No, seriously that's how they were covered. They had enough in the bank to completely pay for one 152 (or maybe two, I don't remember, but not all three), and some left over. They were counting on only losing one at a time (if ever). Calculated risk, but one they deemed acceptable, and I agreed with their thinking. I think they've been doing it that way for about three years now, so the money saved in premiums is adding up.
 
Yeah. If I can ever find a CFI that wants to hang around Couer D Alene, ID for a while and free lance in my 152, I'd probably go with commerical liability only and skip the hull coverage. Maybe make them get 5K's worth of renters insurance and self insure the rest.
 
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I think you are missing my point. As long as CFIing is seen as a stepping stone to bigger and better things in an aviation career, it will never be appreciated at a higher level.

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Then the logging regs. are not where you want to be. You need to start by changing the Part 135 PIC IFR requirements - including somehow making dual given not an option to meet those requirements.

Then - for an added bonus - you need to figure out how people are going to get the experience some other way - because there are only so many pipeline, sightseeing and aerial survey jobs out there. Something has to be the apprenticeship.

Yours is a noble goal - but it takes more than tinkering around the edges to fix it. In Europe they just made GA flying so expensive that the only was to get airline pilots was ab initio training - maybe that's the path to follow?
 
Whoaaa there, my goal is not to make it harder for me, and others like me, to get my foot in the door of an aviation career. In fact, if anyone proposed to de-value flight instruction hours in the way that I've written about, I would seriously consider unfastening their seatbelt, opening their door, and rolling into to a nice steep turn.

G
 
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WIn fact, if anyone proposed to de-value flight instruction hours in the way that I've written about, I would seriously consider unfastening their seatbelt, opening their door, and rolling into to a nice steep turn.

G

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But you just proposed it . . .
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In Europe they just made GA flying so expensive that the only was to get airline pilots was ab initio training - maybe that's the path to follow?

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It's not only the costs that make flying difficult over here in Europe, it's also the regs that are screwed up. How about the idea of getting a flight instructor license only with 700+ TT? And only being able to instruct PPL students with those 700+ hours? Getting a CFII or even MEI is more or less impossible and those who teach that stuff are almost all active airline pilots. I would say we are way overregulated!

Just raising the costs is definately not a path to follow:
Private Pilots would fly less, gain less experience, (maybe) be less safe pilots and might make wrong decisions, i.e. force a landing even if the approach is really bad and crash the plane, instead of going around and trying again. Happened just two weeks ago in St.Johann/Austria. They are afraid of having to pay for another 6 mins. of flight-time. Flight time over is not paid per hour, it is paid per minute! How about paying 7,90 Euro per minute for an old beat-up Seneca?
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That's the going rate per minute over here...and one landing in the Seneca costs 32+ Euro.
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That adds up pretty quick!!

Of course, flight instructors make a lot more money than in the States, but the downside over here is that there are no real flight-schools. Everything works similar to the small FBO-schools and all CFI's are freelancers and you pay them directly in cash. So guess, who is paying taxes? You can say you had a good a week if you have three students flying with you, one hour each. But you make around 45 euro per hour at least. There are only one handful of CFI's who are able to do it for a living. Most have regular day-jobs and go flying with one student for one or two hours on the weekends or evenings.
 
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