First few flights in a transport category aircraft

1) Transports are more difficult in my opinion, the main reasons being speed and complexity, not handling qualities. Complexity comes into play during malfunctions. There are a lot of systems that can break, and when they do, it can exponentially increase the crew's workload (that's a big reason why there's usually a "crew" in the first place, and not just one pilot). I just got a reminder of that tonight doing double engine failure work in the 747 sim....it's not always easy.

Handling is generally better and more responsive in transports, plus you have much more engine power when things are working properly. However, when I go back and fly G.A., it seems as if everything is moving in slow motion...you have ridiculous amounts of time to notice things and react to the environment when you're flying 90 knots compared to 300.

2) The sim does not handle identically to the real airplane, especially within 100 feet of the ground. Even the best sims I've flown are most useful as automation trainers. Hand flown takeoffs and landings just aren't the same, mainly in terms of sight picture, control response, and inertial/gravitational forces as felt by the sim's occupants.

3) The more complex and fast the equipment you've flown prior to getting into a turbine, the better off you'll probably be. No, flying a seminole isn't really going to help you that much with your ERJ takeoffs and landings. Low speed handling qualities are something that just have to be learned on your first few flights in a new type of aircraft; but at least you have a better chance of flying a successful instrument approach than somone whose only experience was in an 85 knot C-150.


I had about 900 hours when I got hired into an E145. The biggest thing I'd flown prior was a Baron. I was trainable, and didn't need any extra help beyond the normal allocation, but I certainly wasn't setting the world on fire on IOE. It took some patient check airmen, and patient captains throughout my 1st year to bring me "up to speed" on airline flying. The same applied to my transition from the E145 to the B-744 at 6000 hours (well except I did actually need an extra IOE flight on the 744, I needed about 4 landings in the real plane before the sight picture "clicked", and you only get 3 landings (1 leg as PM and 3 as PF) in the "real deal" prior to your line check if you stay on schedule!). At least in an RJ you're going to probably get a dozen landings on IOE.
 
The same applied to my transition from the E145 to the B-744 at 6000 hours (well except I did actually need an extra IOE flight on the 744, I needed about 4 landings in the real plane before the sight picture "clicked", and you only get 3 landings (1 leg as PM and 3 as PF) in the "real deal" prior to your line check if you stay on schedule!). At least in an RJ you're going to probably get a dozen landings on IOE.

That was the same here. IOE was 2 landings in the 757, 2 landings in the 767. Not really a whole lot of time to get it all down.
 
Lets here your experience of how your first few legs went as a new airline pilot

-How did the aircraft fly compared to the small pistons from GA flying? Easier to fly? Harder?

An airplane is an airplane. They all fly, more or less, similarly. What's more important is that now they're paying you to fly it their way, right or wrong, for better or for worse. Make sure you know your flows, profiles, and callouts.

-How close did the Sim fly like the aircraft?

I've found that most don't replicate the extension of flaps very accurately. The sim is always far more exaggerated than the actual airplane. The sim won't help you for landings, either. The most important thing here is to know your flows, callouts, and basic pitch/power combinations for shooting an approach.

-Did you feel your piston twin time make you feel like you could handle th RJ, TP, etc...
^^Assuming you were hired with min. multi piston for the job^^

Can't answer that. I got hired with more time than the average regional 1st year applicant.

Basically I would like to get an idea of how well prepared you thought you were for flying a 121 size aircraft. Put your time when you started and the aircraft you were flying in GA and your 121 aircraft. Alright, lets here all the stories...

Started on the ATR with about 2200 hours. Previously, I'd been to initial and recurrent on the LR-35 and LR-55 and been flying right seat in a couple King Airs and 400 series Cessnas. Having been to the schoolhouse before, the initial was not intimidating to me. However, i had a hard time getting my head around flying it the 121 way by the 121 rules. The ATR was a good airplane to learn 121 because it was easy to fly. Easy systems, slow, forgiving. This allowed a person to focus less on the airplane and more on how to bid, work the reserve system, commute to/from work, etc..

I've moved on to the WSCOD/Brazilian BeerCan now and I can imagine that it would be a handful going to such an airplane straight out of a piston twin, even a cabin class airplane. At the Lazy E, the training material is good and very thoroughly detailed (to the point of ridiculous at times), but the fact is that there's just a lot to absorb and retain.
 
Overall I would say the transport aircraft category world is more difficult. Flying is flying, but the level of complexity and time involved to train makes the equation harder.

I was lucky enough to fly many types of single and multi engine aircraft in my years before the airlines. Senecas, 310's, Bonanzas, Cirrus, etc etc etc. For me it took around 10 to 25 hours to REALLY get dialed in to the feel of a new piston plane.

I only have experience with two transport category aircraft. EMB 120's and all three CRJ's.
In each case to really, really feel like you were master of the plane and to have that shiny new pilot luster wear off took around six months or 200 to 300 hours. This is not to say that you felt unsafe before that, but to feel completely natural and 100 percent confident took more time.

SIM felt similar at first but the more I fly the plane the more I notice the subtle differences in how the SIMs handle vs the real thing.
 
Ah this takes me back...

2008...flying the 145 for the first time STL to CLT. Not sure I knew I was working until after I landed back in STL.

I DO remember, however, that the airplane handled REMARKABLY close to the sim. Even the landings were comparable!

Now the SAAB sim vs the airplane...two completely different worlds....in one world you're Chuck Yeager...and the other you're on an intro flight.
 
The Mad Dog reminded me of an out of trim beech 1900.


Sent from my TRS-80
 
I know, it's going to be a pain to have to think that slow if I get a crack at the 121 world!

;)

Yeah, but I'll show you how to read jepps, work with ramp tower and turn smoothly so you don't spill the passenger's coffee, ya zoomie! :) :sarcasm:


Sent from my TRS-80
 
Rocketman99 said:
Funny, I have yet to see anything better than 500fpm above FL200 in the CRJunk without sacrificing all airspeed.

Granted, you can't maintain 290 knots all the way up if you want a decent climb rate. But if you're willing to let the speed slowly decay, then you can maintain better than 500 up into the mid-20s.
 
The Mad Dog reminded me of an out of trim beech 1900.


Sent from my TRS-80

Funny, I just chatted with my initial sim instructor, who's now back at AA flying the MD-80. He says the thing is a piece of crap. No offense! :)
 
Funny, I just chatted with my initial sim instructor, who's now back at AA flying the MD-80. He says the thing is a piece of crap. No offense! :)

Well, hmm. I wouldn't say "piece of crap" because it's designed pretty well to do what it did.

I think of it like this. CRJ-200 = DC-9-10, CRJ-900 = MD-88.
 
Yeah, but I'll show you how to read jepps, work with ramp tower and turn smoothly so you don't spill the passenger's coffee, ya zoomie! :) :sarcasm:


Sent from my TRS-80

I have a bud I used to fly both Eagles and Smurfs with who now flies for the Big D. In his interview, apparently, he was asked how he was going to handle not being able to turn-and-burn anymore.

His response? "Listen, I've spent my entire career peeing in plastic bags while strapped to a seat that I can't get out of in flight. I think it's about time I had the opportunity to actually get up to go to the bathroom and get a cup of coffee while I fly!"

As for me? I'm looking forward to learing all of that stuff, Doug! You guys wouldn't believe what an amazing case of SJS I have...(seriously!).
 
Well, hmm. I wouldn't say "piece of crap" because it's designed pretty well to do what it did.

I think of it like this. CRJ-200 = DC-9-10, CRJ-900 = MD-88.

Weeeeeell, would you bid it again after flying a widebody around for a few years? :)
 
I have a bud I used to fly both Eagles and Smurfs with who now flies for the Big D. In his interview, apparently, he was asked how he was going to handle not being able to turn-and-burn anymore.

His response? "Listen, I've spent my entire career peeing in plastic bags while strapped to a seat that I can't get out of in flight. I think it's about time I had the opportunity to actually get up to go to the bathroom and get a cup of coffee while I fly!"

Nice!

I'm fluent in "Delta" but I've never heard "Smurfs". I know "Lawn Darts", "Tweets", "Buffs", "Bones", "Eagle", "Strike Eagles", "Vipers", "Ring Knockers", "Colorado School for Wayward Boys", "Zoomie", "Stratobladders", I just got handed some recipes so I lost my train of thought.
 
Nice!

I'm fluent in "Delta" but I've never heard "Smurfs". I know "Lawn Darts", "Tweets", "Buffs", "Bones", "Eagle", "Strike Eagles", "Vipers", "Ring Knockers", "Colorado School for Wayward Boys", "Zoomie", "Stratobladders", I just got handed some recipes so I lost my train of thought.

This is the Smurf: The much loved by fighter pilots and hated by student pilots AT-38B. So called because of the blue camo paint scheme.

jas4817.jpg


Instructing in Smurfs was probably the best assignment of my career.
 
This is the Smurf: The much loved by fighter pilots and hated by student pilots AT-38B. So called because of the blue camo paint scheme.

jas4817.jpg


Instructing in Smurfs was probably the best assignment of my career.

Cool, thanks!
 
Ah look
This is the Smurf: The much loved by fighter pilots and hated by student pilots AT-38B. So called because of the blue camo paint scheme.

jas4817.jpg


Instructing in Smurfs was probably the best assignment of my career.
Look at that wrinkled skin.

Being a line guy when these showed up was usually the worst days of being on the line. For some reason they always killed our air cart and all the other guys were scared to go under to switch the valve for the other engine.
 
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