Fired

C

CloudCatcher

Well-Known Member
Ok, so here is my situation. I've been instructing at a flight academy in Florida for about two years now and gained a significant amount of flight time (about 2100 hours, over 200 multi). I'm happy to see that airlines are starting to hire again, and know I'm eligible to be hired by one because I did a job interview last month, didn't get hired unfortunately.

To be perfectly honest, instructing was never really my forte and the last group of students I had were particularly difficult and failed a lot, particularly in their stage-checks. Management decided I was the weakest link and let me go last week.

So my question is, how should I move forward from here. I want to apply directly to a 121 or 135 airline, but I'm not sure how to explain the terms of my leaving my last job. When I was fired I asked my chief flight instructor what he would say if a potential employer called for a reference and I was told that it would be confirmed that I worked there and that I was not eligible for re-hire.

I'm considering the idea of telling them that I left the flight academy for some reason other then termination as termination may be viewed as a disqualifier, but I'm not sure if that would be wise. I know that if you are caught lying to a 121 carrier you are blacklisted from all 121 carriers. Of course they are not likely to find out as I already know what the academy will say if they get a reference call, but I'm not sure what the wisest course of action to take from here out is. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Lying isnt suggested but at the same time what your former employer can say is very limited. Bascialy to avoid lawsuites, all they will say is yes or no if you worked there and yes or no if they would hire you back.
 
Just be honest. Don't blame anyone for what happened, tell them what it has taught you as a professional or as an individual or both. Accept responsibility for your actions and they will appreciate it. Perhaps look into some 135 carriers in the mean time.
 
The airlines are less concerned with your story as they are with requirements and the hiring needs at that time. Pt91/135 places are more political... I can tell you for sure that an airline recruiter does not care at all how good of an instructor you were, simply because it has nothing to do with the job that's required of you there. You're not the first and you won't be the last to be fired for stupid things. Just be thankful that it wasn't for crashing the airplane or making the evening news. be truthful, it's really up to them anyways whether they like you or not.
 
Blacklisted from all 121 carriers? Don't be so dramatic.

The last 135 job I had before the 121 job I currently have told me they were going to ruin me for leaving and guess what?-I still got the job I have today because I was qualified, confident, knowledgeable and passed the interview process. Thats all that matters.
Tell the truth. Lying only makes you look like a coward. Blaming others is the first sign of weakness that will be a guarantee that you won't be hired.
Most of the 135 interviews I've had are a "get to know you" anyways. Be yourself and you'll be fine.
 
Well, by blacklisted I was referring to the Pilot Records Improvement Act. Anyway, thanks for the advice everybody. I think I will probably just be upfront with them about it. I would rather tell them the truth then have them guessing at why I am not eligible for re-hire. It's not like I did anything wrong, I just wasn't effective enough at my job.
 
CloudCatcher said:
Well, by blacklisted I was referring to the Pilot Records Improvement Act. Anyway, thanks for the advice everybody. I think I will probably just be upfront with them about it. I would rather tell them the truth then have them guessing at why I am not eligible for re-hire. It's not like I did anything wrong, I just wasn't effective enough at my job.
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Honestly, i wouldnt bring it up unless they ask. People are in-eligible for a variety of reasons. I wouldnt come right out of the gate saying i was in-effective at my last job.
 
There will probably be a question on the HR portion of the application that asks if you were ever terminated from any job.
 
CloudCatcher said:
Well, by blacklisted I was referring to the Pilot Records Improvement Act. Anyway, thanks for the advice everybody. I think I will probably just be upfront with them about it. I would rather tell them the truth then have them guessing at why I am not eligible for re-hire. It's not like I did anything wrong, I just wasn't effective enough at my job.
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If I am not mistaken PRIA only applies to airlines, not flight schools.
 
Don't lie on an application, but don't volunteer any information that you don't need to.

And consider this.

You instructed for for two years and almost 2000 hours. Clearly you were a better instructor than you are giving yourself credit for, otherwise you probably would have been fired long ago. Go back over your records. How many students have been successful? How many "bad" lessons have you really had?

Just sounds to me as though you hit a rough spot in your career, and your boss took the lazy man's way out rather than really working to resolve the issue.
 
skydog2 said:
Don't lie on an application, but don't volunteer any information that you don't need to.

And consider this.

You instructed for for two years and almost 2000 hours. Clearly you were a better instructor than you are giving yourself credit for, otherwise you probably would have been fired long ago. Go back over your records. How many students have been successful? How many "bad" lessons have you really had?

Just sounds to me as though you hit a rough spot in your career, and your boss took the lazy man's way out rather than really working to resolve the issue.
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Glad you wrote this as I was just about to. Your longevity and hours instructing at your former job mean that you were competent - at least for a couple years. You hit a rough patch with students, and potentially "burn out" which affected your performance. I would NOT lie, but I wouldn't answer any questions that are not asked either. If they do ask, simply be upfront, but stay away from "burned out" as an answer - that may not sit well with HR types.
 
Good advice here, especially from skydog. Apparently you weren't too bad.
Don't make a big deal about whatever "Academy" you went to/taught they aren't impressive. In fact start talking about "the academy" and you may get an eyeroll.

The two biggest factor in an interview is can this guy pass training and from the CP view, "can someone stand to sit next to this guy for a 4 day trip without killing him or calling me". There is no 121 black list :).
Stay current, pay for a membership in airline pilot interview gouge, and wait.

One last thing your firing may have been due to other reasons, and there is no reason you have to report as gospel what some little boss at a little "academy" told you when he let you go. If you screwed up, learn from it and fix it.

Best of luck.
 
Tell the truth.

Is there anything you learned from the experience you could express to potential interviewers? I'd be prepared to pass that information on, definitely don't play the blame game. Once the economy picks up and age 65 hits there will be lots of movement, so the regionals will most likely need to hire like gangbusters. The people that would have retired at 60 and now can stay until 65 have about 2.5 years or so left.
 
Not taking a stab, but I am curious as to how you can have so many hours as an instructor and not be able to produce results with your students on stage-checks.

I only instructed for 600 hours and I am by no means the instructor type like you say. I too thought it wasn't for me. However, at the Academy I went to in FL I was given 10 problem students towards the end of my 600 Dual Given and not one of them failed a check-ride.

Again, not personal, but I think your employer is right in there decision. Perhaps you were burnt out with instructing and not giving it your complete focus. Which is not fair to the student.

With that being said, like the others mentioned, don't lie to the airlines. This is a very small community and people know people. The smallest little thing can come back to bite you when you least expect it.

DUI, Alcohol consumption by a minor, bankruptcy, been fired? Who cares? I personally explained my own failed checkride, been fired from a job once and the alcohol consumption by a minor bit in my interview and I was straight up with them. They asked a few questions, asked me if I learned anything from those experiences and we moved on. If they find, or get a feeling that you are hiding something before, or during the interview they will not be happy and will likely not consider you. After all, they are looking to see if they can stand you long enough to spend 4 or 5 days with you. They also want to know if they can trust you. Will you have their back when they have yours?

You may not like this scenario, but it may be helpful to grab another CFI gig in the meantime, or even something non-aviation related, so that experience isn't the most recent part of discussion in your application.

Good luck! Remember, be honest and tell them like it is. Be confident!
 
CloudCatcher said:
To be perfectly honest, instructing was never really my forte and the last group of students I had were particularly difficult and failed a lot, particularly in their stage-checks. Management decided I was the weakest link and let me go last week.
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Some good advice so far, but I have to ask this question:

If instructing isn't really your forte, would being a first officer at a regional be your forte? When you tire of that will you stop doing a good job because you are burnt out? If/when you become a captain at a regional and tire of that will you also stop doing a good job? How will that affect the safety of the flight?

Those would be my thoughts if I was an interviewer and heard your story. Interviewers are pretty sharp and they can sense your attitude quite easily. You need serious help if you want to be successful in this career or any, but you also need to do some soul searching before you seek that help. Is this career field really for you? Will you give it 100% even when you are tired?

There's no room in aviation for people who are slack. Lots of holes in the ground to prove that point already.

Some might consider my words harsh, but I consider it tough love. When you've done your soul searching you might want to talk to:


Emerald Coast Interview Consulting

or

A Write Resume


Both of those people can help you tailor answers to interview questions to help explain leaving the last job in a favorable light.

Good luck,



Typhoonpilot
 
I was burnt out instructing as would anyone who has done the same type of instructing in small, single/multi engine a/c with no air conditioning earning little money. It's a tough life.
 
typhoonpilot said:
Some good advice so far, but I have to ask this question:

If instructing isn't really your forte, would being a first officer at a regional be your forte? When you tire of that will you stop doing a good job because you are burnt out? If/when you become a captain at a regional and tire of that will you also stop doing a good job? How will that affect the safety of the flight?



Typhoonpilot
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Flying an airplane and flight instructing are very different processes. I'm perfectly capable of staying alert and attentive to keep a flight progressing safely, as I have done a thousand times in the past. What I'm not so great at is explaining the same to people over and over again. And watching them struggle with the same over and over again.
 
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