Filing a STAR

Douglas

Douglas

Old School KSUX
So I am heading over to Chicago on Saturday to knock out some required x-c time with an instrument applicant.

Do you guys normally file a STAR or just file via VORs and see if they issue anything to you.

Typically we do our STAR exposer for instrument applicants on a x-c to KC and request the STAR airborne.

I'm starting to think it would be best for him to practice filing the STAR but I am curious to see what you guys do. Really not an issue at all, just curious on what you guys do.


And a second question-
He wants to go into Midway. I was wondering if any locals advise against it. (i.e. horrible ramp fees, the traffic sucks, no good food around...)
If you do advise against it, do you have a better place to go? Executive?
 
Douglas said:
So I am heading over to Chicago on Saturday to knock out some required x-c time with an instrument applicant.

Do you guys normally file a STAR or just file via VORs and see if they issue anything to you.

Typically we do our STAR exposer for instrument applicants on a x-c to KC and request the STAR airborne.

I'm starting to think it would be best for him to practice filing the STAR but I am curious to see what you guys do. Really not an issue at all, just curious on what you guys do.
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I usually copy/paste whatever is in fltplan.com either a preferred route or a "recent ATC route" for a similar type. If I'm going in the Cj and a C25B has gotten ABC V123 DEF.STARR1, even though I'm not a 25B, I'll copy/past/file it.

And a second question-
He wants to go into Midway. I was wondering if any locals advise against it. (i.e. horrible ramp fees, the traffic sucks, no good food around...)
If you do advise against it, do you have a better place to go? Executive?
Click to expand...
DPA

IMO, Midway and PWK are both high priced (ramp fees, etc.) for students. Good experience, but it may not be worth it to him. There's certainly nothing wrong with gaining "big airport" experience, but I think the student has to decide if it's worth it particularly if there are other options.

Also, you need to decide if your student "needs" that experience. Sometimes I had to schedule students to do a bravo flight with me. Not because they are necessarily going to operate there all the time, but if they're timid wrt Class __ airspace, take them there so they can see it's no big deal.

Each student is unique.

Oh...you mentioned food, so I'll say it. MDW. Giordanos. NOM NOM NOM!!!!! It's a must!

-mini
 
He's pretty good.
Doesn't need really anymore exposure, but he is hell bent on MDW. It looks like the fees are with in the range that he will want to do MDW.
 
Douglas said:
He's pretty good.
Doesn't need really anymore exposure, but he is hell bent on MDW. It looks like the fees are with in the range that he will want to do MDW.
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Giordano's

If you don't, you surrender your man card. Emergency revocation.

MDW isn't too bad. Not a lot of ramp space. I've been to Atlantic and Signature. Atlantic's facility is probably a little nicer but I never really felt like they wanted me there in my little prop trash. Signature really treats us well, but that's because our whole fleet goes to Signature...pick your poison.

-mini
 
minitour said:
Oh...you mentioned food, so I'll say it. MDW. Giordanos. NOM NOM NOM!!!!! It's a must!

-mini
Click to expand...

Agreed. MMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Douglas said:
So I am heading over to Chicago on Saturday to knock out some required x-c time with an instrument applicant.

Do you guys normally file a STAR or just file via VORs and see if they issue anything to you.

Typically we do our STAR exposer for instrument applicants on a x-c to KC and request the STAR airborne.

I'm starting to think it would be best for him to practice filing the STAR but I am curious to see what you guys do. Really not an issue at all, just curious on what you guys do.


And a second question-
He wants to go into Midway. I was wondering if any locals advise against it. (i.e. horrible ramp fees, the traffic sucks, no good food around...)
If you do advise against it, do you have a better place to go? Executive?
Click to expand...


I went into MDW with a C150 back in July. Filed for and was given the GSH4. I don't think we had to do anything with the crossing restriction at CGT, they descended us on their own.

If you go into PWK, just be prepared to be rerouted. More than once. It seems like no matter what "ATC preferred route" you choose on fltplan, it's never good enough for them. On the way to Oshkosh we went to PWK the night before. We got rerouted 3 different times I think.
 
Remember, if you can't fly the altitudes posted you can't file the STAR. You can fly to all the fixes on the STAR but you cannot actualy say you are flying the STAR. Just one of thoes stupid things I held onto for years.
 
Guess who is not going to Chicago!

Some C182 gave a pirep for light Rime on our route so we delayed and now I cancelled due to getting back after the party started (9:30) that would be unprofessional. I wants a day off, anyway. Our flight school has been uber lucky, during the recession.

woutlaw said:
Direct. Always. If the computer wants something different, it'll issue it. :)
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True, but I want him to practice filing something other than direct or VORs.

And the destination has changed to executive, where he is meeting a relative. So much for Giordano's
 
Douglas said:
Guess who is not going to Chicago!

Some C182 gave a pirep for light Rime on our route so we delayed and now I cancelled due to getting back after the party started (9:30) that would be unprofessional. I wants a day off, anyway. Our flight school has been uber lucky, during the recession.



True, but I want him to practice filing something other than direct or VORs.

And the destination has changed to executive, where he is meeting a relative. So much for Giordano's
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Yeah, I get the difficulty of "real world" vs. "training." Real world, direct, always. Or a preferred route if one exists.

Training, file what makes sense for the mission, so file the STAR, tell ATC what you're doing and they'll probably give it to you.

Dunno where you're flying in from, but picking someplace across Lake Michigan is a great exercise in decision making and filing something other than direct and probably more relevant to real-world flying than asking for a STAR.

(And saying "no thanks, I really want to go the way I filed" when offered direct by center. Good to get 'em used to telling ATC "no, that don't work for me man.")

You can get the same effect with weather, mountainous terrain (tough to come by in the Midwest, but the Appalachian mountains are dangerous enough.

Or, fly some DP/STARS in the sim so he's been exposed to 'em.

Sounds like a great training mission, actually. A real reason to go someplace with consequences if you have to cancel, divert. Outstanding stuff!
 
Flyvne said:
Remember, if you can't fly the altitudes posted you can't file the STAR. You can fly to all the fixes on the STAR but you cannot actualy say you are flying the STAR. Just one of thoes stupid things I held onto for years.
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I don't believe that is correct. Do you have a reference?
 
minitour said:
Yes. Sometimes they'll put in a fix for you, if it's late and the controller isn't distracted by a hot cup of coffee and he feels like putting it in.

More often than not it's "go re-file".

-mini
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The routes are computer generated, a controller working flight data at MDW only reads what his strip prints out. The clearances are done within the centers. I have never been told to tell a pilot to go re-file, I'm sure it is possible it can happen, but even when a route is not liked by the computers, or a person, the computer reworks it. It has nothing to do with a controller at MDW, he doesn't decide your route.
 
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