Fifi flies again!

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Roger, Roger

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Link:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/fifi_b29_superfortress_flight_203088-1.html

Pretty cool that they got it going again. I'd love a chance to wrench on those old radials!
AvWeb said:
The Commemorative Air Force's Boeing B-29 Superfortress flew Thursday morning at Midland International Airport, taking to the air for the first time since 2004 and reclaiming its title as the only flyable aircraft of its type. "She ran like a top," Paul Stojkov, one of the aircraft's pilots said of the aircraft's 39-minute flight. The hop was made possible by volunteer work, the support of the CAF team and financial contributors like Jim Cavanaugh. That combination saw FIFI fitted with new custom built engines that combine the R-3350-95W and R-3350-26WD engines. FIFI's next flight is expected on Saturday, August 7, and visitors are invited.
Saturday at 7 a.m., the CAF Airpower Museum will open to those interested in watching pre-flight preparations. Tickets for the museum cost $10 and, on the 7th, visitors will be ushered to the museum's main hangar for "an up-close view" prior to the flight. Click through for the CAF's video clip of Thursday's flight.
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That's awesome! It's always great to see a piece of history restored and back in the air!
 
The real debacle was the reason FiFi hasn't flown for such a long time -- the absolutely abhorrent engine overhauls she received several years ago.

The airplane was a regular flyer (both before and after Greenamayer went to go get Kee Bird), but an engine fire forced an engine change, followed shortly thereafter by the discovery that two of the other engines (literally JUST OUT of overhaul by only a handful of hours) were making metal in the oil.

Not only that, but the mark of 3350 that the B-29 uses has parts that are in very short supply. So in the years between a new hybrid R-3350 was designed and put together to improve performance and increase efficiency.

A big donation allowed them to replace all four engines with this new hybrid.
 
Hacker15e said:
The real debacle was the reason FiFi hasn't flown for such a long time -- the absolutely abhorrent engine overhauls she received several years ago.

The airplane was a regular flyer (both before and after Greenamayer went to go get Kee Bird), but an engine fire forced an engine change, followed shortly thereafter by the discovery that two of the other engines (literally JUST OUT of overhaul by only a handful of hours) were making metal in the oil.

Not only that, but the mark of 3350 that the B-29 uses has parts that are in very short supply. So in the years between a new hybrid R-3350 was designed and put together to improve performance and increase efficiency.

A big donation allowed them to replace all four engines with this new hybrid.
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So there's more to the story than the basic engine design? I heard talk about the version in the B-29 having issues with making metal since WWII, but didn't realize there was another angle.
 
XLR99 said:
I heard talk about the version in the B-29 having issues with making metal since WWII, but didn't realize there was another angle.
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Everything about the B-29 in WW2 was a rush job. If you read about the "battle of Kansas" and what was involved in getting the B-29 operational in such a short time frame, you'll be amazed. They took it from a concept design to 3000 finished airframes in 4 years.

Once the initial design was set, nothing could be changed since production runs all over the country were making parts that had to fit together before the prototype ever flew. In the initial testing they learned that there were several MAJOR design flaws. However since the assembly line was already gearing up, no major changes could be made. The planes were flown from the factory directly to modification centers where many problems were fixed.

If they had been built today they would be grounded as deathtraps. The engine accessory cases were made of magnesium (which has a nasty habit of burning) since aluminum was in such short supply. An engine fire would melt the wing spar in under 90 seconds.

Also bear in mind that these engines were being maintained by poorly trained farm boys. They may have known how to rebuild a flathead V8, but a R-3350 is a whole different level. The military still has the same problem today. It takes 5-10 guys to do what one experianced A&P can handle by himself. Not a knock on military mechs, (I was one) but simply a factor of experiance.
 
USMCmech said:
Everything about the B-29 in WW2 was a rush job. If you read about the "battle of Kansas" and what was involved in getting the B-29 operational in such a short time frame, you'll be amazed. They took it from a concept design to 3000 finished airframes in 4 years.

Once the initial design was set, nothing could be changed since production runs all over the country were making parts that had to fit together before the prototype ever flew. In the initial testing they learned that there were several MAJOR design flaws. However since the assembly line was already gearing up, no major changes could be made. The planes were flown from the factory directly to modification centers where many problems were fixed.

If they had been built today they would be grounded as deathtraps. The engine accessory cases were made of magnesium (which has a nasty habit of burning) since aluminum was in such short supply. An engine fire would melt the wing spar in under 90 seconds.

Also bear in mind that these engines were being maintained by poorly trained farm boys. They may have known how to rebuild a flathead V8, but a R-3350 is a whole different level. The military still has the same problem today. It takes 5-10 guys to do what one experianced A&P can handle by himself. Not a knock on military mechs, (I was one) but simply a factor of experiance.
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:yeahthat:

The airplanes were not supposed to last. They, and the crews, were expendable. This is true of just about everything built during WW2 (ever worked on a B-24 or C-46? :) )
 
MikeD said:
Especially after the Kee Bird debacle

http://forums.jetcareers.com/youtube-aviation-videos/108025-b-29-45-21768-kee-bird.html
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I saw that on PBS the other night.

Part of me is disgusted and part feels for the guy. This was clearly a case of someone outsmarting themselves. "It's a complete airframe, just hang new engines and props and fly it out". However, had it made it to Thule, it still would have needed years of work to be really airworthy.

Afterwords, everybody did the math and it would have been much easier to haul it out in pieces and truck them to a place to restore it would have been cheaper and easier. However, note that nobody was willing to pony up the cash for that long term project. But, "a complete flyable B-29 sitting in Greenland waiting to be flown back to the USA" that can raise some cash.

If it had worked, he would have been a hero. It didn't, so he's a idiot.


Same thing with "Glacier Girl" They spent close to 15 years completely rebuilding every part of that plane, the only thing origional is the data plate. It would have been much easier to find a wreck stateside and restore that, but that didn't have the cool factor of a "perfectly preserved" (not at all) P-38.
 
USMCmech said:
Same thing with "Glacier Girl" They spent close to 15 years completely rebuilding every part of that plane, the only thing origional is the data plate.
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Definitely *not* true with Glacier Girl.

There are plenty of warbirds that are this way -- many of the P-51s 'restored' in the last decade can be described this way.

The P-38, though, had a very well documented restoration where a HUGE amount of the original metal was re-used. They 'officially' say that it's 80% the same metal/parts...although that's an optimistic approximation, IMHO, it's certainly MUCH closer to that number than a "dataplate only" restoration.
 
USMCmech said:
"It's a complete airframe, just hang new engines and props and fly it out". However, had it made it to Thule, it still would have needed years of work to be really airworthy.
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Neither Greenamayer or any of the other investors who were involved in organizing the Kee Bird recovery thought this.

They knew full well that the airplane would need a complete rebuild after getting back to the US.

They were excited because, given the remote location, flying it out was so much more financially doable than parting it out and hauling it on other cargo aircraft, or hauling it to some seaport where it could be shipped out. Those latter two options were just not really logistically feasible.
 
Like I said, he had to pitch his plan a certain way to attract funding, even if in the long run another way would have been safer and maybe cheaper.

My beef is with the Monday morning QBs who act like this guy was some reckless nut job.

I feel bad for the guy when everybody acts like he was some Walter Mitty who didn't know what he was doing. That is simply not the case. It was a gamble, and he and the guys working out there knew it. He put a lot of his own money into the plan and it was lost.

He did basicly the exact same thing the CAF did when they pulled FiFi out of China Lake. They got her barely flyable and flew halfway across the country in a total deathtrap to a base where it could be restored over a few years.

They made it, and he didn't. It could have easily gone the other way.
 
From another site, they are going to use the guts of the -95W in the case of the -26WD. The -26WD was used in the SkyRaider and was produced into the 1960s. It sounds like a LOT of people came together, put up and helped get this historic bird back in the air.

Good for the old bird!
 
A bad overhaul, not honoring a warranty and other issues (like crews falling out of currency and the attendent costs of getting them current, plus overhauling a 3350) is what is keeping the Connie at the Airline History Museum on the ground. 3350's are amazing in their complexity. The power recovery turbines alone generate more horsepower than an LSA can fly with (on the turbo-compounds).
 
I remember watching this plane fly a demonstration at an airshow at OKC back in 97. It was a huge plane. I don't think I like old airplanes enough back then to truly appreciate how awesome it really was to see. It also provided some great shade to escape the sun that was out that day while she sat on the ramp. Glad to see it back in action.
 
tprops4me said:
I remember watching this plane fly a demonstration at an airshow at OKC back in 97. It was a huge plane. I don't think I like old airplanes enough back then to truly appreciate how awesome it really was to see. It also provided some great shade to escape the sun that was out that day while she sat on the ramp. Glad to see it back in action.
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Same here. I remember seeing it when I was a kid at PHF when PHF was Patrick Henry and not Newport News Williamsburg. Crawling around inside it at that age didn't give me a good appreciation of what that plane is.

Im considering driving from DFW to see the flight tomorrow morning.
 
USMCmech said:
If they had been built today they would be grounded as deathtraps. The engine accessory cases were made of magnesium (which has a nasty habit of burning) since aluminum was in such short supply. An engine fire would melt the wing spar in under 90 seconds.
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Aren't O-200 accesory cases made out of magnesium? Now that I think about it it seems like some wheels are made out of magnesium too.
 
N18040 said:
Aren't O-200 accesory cases made out of magnesium? Now that I think about it it seems like some wheels are made out of magnesium too.
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I believe that there was a lot of magnesium used on the Beech Duke. Not sure but I think so.
 
USMCmech said:
Like I said, he had to pitch his plan a certain way to attract funding, even if in the long run another way would have been safer and maybe cheaper.

My beef is with the Monday morning QBs who act like this guy was some reckless nut job.
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He was reckless. He was in a rush to get it out of there due to weather and hadn't secured a generator in the rear of the plane, and didn't even have fire extinguishers on standyby for the fire that consumed the airplane. It had been up there for nearly 50 years at the time, whats one more year?

Greenamayer has a history of reckless operations. This wasn't his first. I know from first hand knowledge. A friend of mine helped Greenamayer replace rivits in the 'Red Baron' with flush rivits for the record attempt.

104rb.jpg


The fella standing closest to the airplane at the back is Sam Difatta, the guy who helped/did the majority of the rivets on the airplane. He tought me how to fly R/C and also helped me with some contacts that got me involved in aviation.

In his bearcat that he was setting records in, he had to reseal the fuel tank numerous times because he was doing half ass work, and wear an icepack on his chest because he hadn't properlly sealed the engine compartment and was experincing temps of 200 deg. in the cockpit while attemptng records. Risking life for a record attempt, when you know what the problem is and can fix it, nah, that aint wreckless, or nuts.
 
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