Federal Judge Condems Delta for Weaponization of Psychiatry in reprisal of Female Pilot

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
Sure! Although your facts are a bit off (as usual). I was never on the Merger Committee. I was the MEC Vice Chairman. The Merger Committee was drinking the Southwest kool aid about their CULTure, and I was ringing the alarm bells internally trying to convince the MEC that this was going to end up badly with a seniority integration that screwed our members because the MC didn’t want to go to arbitration. The MEC didn’t want to listen and had complete faith in the MC. I refused to back down and insisted that we needed to put tighter controls on the MC (something that’s allowed under ALPA Merger Policy in a merger with a non-ALPA carrier). The MEC didn’t like that and wanted to just put all their trust in the MC. I turned in my resignation in protest, making it effective I think a month later, allowing for a smooth transition to a replacement Vice Chair. Some members of the MEC got mad and insisted that I make the resignation effective immediately if I was going to resign. I refused, as I didn’t think it was responsible to just up and quit with no time for an orderly transition, especially since the MEC Chairman was essentially a figurehead who had delegated virtually all of the day-to-day running of the union to me. When I refused to amend the letter, they recalled me. The MEC put out a letter saying that they had recalled me because I was interfering with the MC. A lie. The MC actually put out their own letter a few days later refuting it and saying that they did not request my recall. It was a mess.

A few weeks later the MC agreed to a deal on the SLI. As I predicted, it hosed our pilots. The MEC hated it, voted it down, and then asked me to come back as Executive Administrator to help clean up the mess. I agreed, but ended up resigning again a couple of months later because the MEC still didn’t have the stones to control the Merger Committee and force an arbitration. The end result was the awful SLI we got.



Yes, like I said, people are scum.


SlumTodd_Millionare said:
I'll end with this, while you continue to munch on your Sbarros while sitting on your toilet to piss
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
How much better would my jynxyjoe'ing motions be if I was actually disagreeing with a poster named McPickle? I feel like I've been cheated out of a larger laugh.
 

Richman

That's "Lord Garth" to you
Talked to a guy who was at XJT near the end and he said there were still guys from the Rocky Mountain/Britt/Bar Harbour days there when they shut the lights off.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
The depositions and thousands of pages of documents (including my personal emails) are on the public docket. You're welcome to read through it all if you'd like.

(This is your regularly scheduled reminder to never put anything in an email that you wouldn't want shown to the world on a courtroom TV screen or in a public docket on the internet)
As I said, I’ll take your word for it. I don’t doubt it’s all recorded.



Like you said, people will do what they think is best. And in the case of KP, she did what she thought was best given what was happening to her.


No, it reads like a bunch of people with very different opinions on what is best for the pilots fighting like hell to do what they think is best. The people who recalled me were mostly brand new reps with little experience in any union work at all who simply didn't know what they were doing. But they were doing the best they could with their little experience, and they were doing what they believed was right. Even the guy who led the effort (who did have a decent amount of experience) was doing what he felt was right. He and I bitterly disagreed about just about everything. But we both were fighting for our convictions (and now we get along just fine).
Strange that you don’t take the same view for the SWAPA pilots and SWA management. They too were doing what they think is best for their guys. You’ve complained before about the outcome of that SLI. Everyone does what they think is best. When one senior airline says 70% longevity and 30% stat/cat, they think that is best. When the junior airline says 15% longevity and 85% stat/cat, they think that is best. Even you were shocked at the final arbitrated result of 60% longevity and 40% stat/cat. It is what it is. Some will be happy, some pissed, but at the end of the day, each side did what they thought was best.

It's very easy for someone like you to sit behind your keyboard, or behind a lawyer, and hurl accusations and slander people. It's a much different world to have to actually make tough decisions that impact the lives of tens of thousands of people in a profound way. You have no idea what it's like to lose sleep because you wonder whether you're going to be the one responsible for putting people out of work because you can't be entirely sure if your strategy is the right one, even though you believe that it is.
Which is why I’m ok being a line puke. I have no interest in getting involved in that drama. The last thing I want is some pilot or pilots accusing me of their job predicament.


Because lessons are learned after every major event, especially mergers. It's always a continual process to fine-tune policies to cover every conceivable aspect. And just like the military is always fighting the last war, ALPA is always fighting the last negotiation or merger. We can't see into the future and know what we need to do to prevent problems yet to come. All we can do is learn from the past and try to make the policies better with each passing event.
Correct. So you admit, screwups happen. Lessons learned the hard way. For some pilot groups, that meant a lawsuit.


I offered a cash reward to anyone willing to give me hard evidence of who it was. I think I offered something like $2k. Nobody ever came forward. I'd have loved to sue him for libel, as many of the things he said were objectively false. The statute of limitations ran out years ago, unfortunately.
Sucks what he did. What he wrote about your flying background was patently false and the point he tried to make was dumb. One did not equate to the other, as he tried to make it out to be. That was a low blow.

I'll end with this, while you continue to munch on your Sbarros while sitting on your toilet to piss, thinking yourself qualified to judge the actions of people who actually put their time and their reputation where their mouth was, unlike you:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” - President Theodore Roosevelt
My toilet is my throne. I sit proudly. :) As for putting time and reputation, wait up boss. It’s not like this is entirely charity. You ran for the position and I certainly appreciate the volunteer who steps up to serve. That said, full FPL for the work you do comes out of union dues. The pilot group is paying for a service and therefore do have at least voice in that matter AND the outcomes achieved. The whole point we disagreed on that led to this back and forth is the belief that if ALPA fails in their duty of fair representation, a lawsuit isn’t out of the question. This is subjective. Obviously you don’t feel the same way.

Nice Democratic President quote. Play that to the leftist liberals today and you’ll have them accusing you of not providing a trigger warning and go running off to their safe spaces.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
I’m not even going to bother responding, except to point out that you’re such a dumbass that you don’t even know the political party of one of our country’s most well known past presidents. You continue to find new ways to make a fool of yourself. I should have you on ignore, but the way you continually embarrass yourself, I just can’t look away.
 
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mrivc211

Well-Known Member
A company the size and magnitude of Delta only wants one thing: a smooth running operation.

they don’t care about your political beliefs, what you stick in what hole, or any other non business related matter. They just want you to show up on time to do the job they hired you for.
I don’t blame corporations for wanting to get rid of their problems by machines and automation. You give them the highest pay and benefits, and they still aren’t happy.
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
@Cherokee_Cruiser just shut up.

From 2014-2016ish to March of 2020 I was livid with 'the Association' for a variety of decisions, political antics and egregious behavior. Brought my ALPA PAC donations down to $1.00 a month, quit the Emergency Relief Fund Board and passed up an opportunity to be the National Pilot Assistance Chair (was Vice Chair) due to the BS from 'the Association'. Doubtful I ever serve in a volunteer position again for 'the Association' as the internal BS is more than I want to deal with.

However, when push came to shove and COVID hit, while (United's) management team(s) lead the way securing funding through the CARES ACT, ALPA was right along side pushing their contacts to secure us funding. That funding, kept you in the left seat, and kept you out of the unemployment line.

So for you, and others, I suggest we move away from bringing up the TWA Lawsuit (and actually @Autothrust Blue a judge made an unfavorable ruling and we then we settled after that if I remember correctly, no jury), other BS Lawsuits that you haven't been briefed on nor understand the politics of the Pilot group that lead to the lawsuit, or ridiculous 'black helicopters are overhead' theories about ALPA. When push came to shove, ALPA helped deliver when we all needed them to.

Finally, I am back up to the Behncke level for the ALPA PAC based on their performance getting the funding for the CARES Act. ALPA isn't perfect, but they have been doing mostly the right things in the worst event in aviation history.
 

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Because lessons are learned after every major event, especially mergers. It's always a continual process to fine-tune policies to cover every conceivable aspect. And just like the military is always fighting the last war, ALPA is always fighting the last negotiation or merger. We can't see into the future and know what we need to do to prevent problems yet to come. All we can do is learn from the past and try to make the policies better with each passing event.
I think we CAN do that do some extent. We certainly ARE capable of very accurate predictive analyses in many domains. If not, neither Casinos nor modern aircraft would exist.

The fact that the great majority of humanity possess not the spine to get-up/stand-up and engage in predictive hazard-avoidance and/or predictive opportunity-pursuit is, to my eyes, the real issue. The hesitation to call logically/mathematically obvious shots seems almost always to have much more to do with social posturing and socially-normalized aversion to disturbing "the peace"- you know, vested inertial ecomomic interests - than it has to do with seeking truth, justice, or future growth opportunities. More about Fitting In than about disturbing the current order o' thangs... even if that disturbance results in more justice, a healthier planet, or even greater personal gain and happiness. ... In the words of The Donald: "Sad"

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” - President Theodore Roosevelt
Thumbs up! But I'll give a thumbs up to damned near anything uttered by that currently impossible, enlightened rebel - TRJ!! The man possessed the same enlightened-rebel, warrior-poet traits as Jesus. And like Jesus, he was disowned by his native tribe, and they tried to kill him for rocking the profit boat... but, TRJ was made of tougher stuff.

TRJ is my hero! He's was the Trump-like-populist of his day! But with enlightenment, intelligence, empathy and compassion! And those made all the difference.
 
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Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
I’m not even going to bother responding, except to point out that you’re such a dumbass that you don’t even know the political party of one of our country’s most well known past presidents. You continue to find new ways to make a fool of yourself. I should have you on ignore, but the way you continually embarrass yourself, I just can’t look away.
Dumb-Assery! ...Everywhere!

Everybody! GET IN LINE!!!

I'm still waiting... and waiting... and waiting...

Still living on the island of doubt. Still looking for a case of medicine...

This is NOT my beautiful house! This is NOT my beautiful wife! Lord, HOW did I get here???

I try to change my shape. But I still feel like an accident!

I'm relegated to lifting my head and trying to continue to look for the danger signs.

Facts are living... but they're inside out.

No trouble at all... I'm keeping my fingers behind me.

The world is HERE. But it's out of reach. Some people touch it... but they can't hold on.

I'm walking a line... ... ... divided we fall.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
@Cherokee_Cruiser just shut up.

From 2014-2016ish to March of 2020 I was livid with 'the Association' for a variety of decisions, political antics and egregious behavior. Brought my ALPA PAC donations down to $1.00 a month, quit the Emergency Relief Fund Board and passed up an opportunity to be the National Pilot Assistance Chair (was Vice Chair) due to the BS from 'the Association'. Doubtful I ever serve in a volunteer position again for 'the Association' as the internal BS is more than I want to deal with.

However, when push came to shove and COVID hit, while (United's) management team(s) lead the way securing funding through the CARES ACT, ALPA was right along side pushing their contacts to secure us funding. That funding, kept you in the left seat, and kept you out of the unemployment line.

So for you, and others, I suggest we move away from bringing up the TWA Lawsuit (and actually @Autothrust Blue a judge made an unfavorable ruling and we then we settled after that if I remember correctly, no jury), other BS Lawsuits that you haven't been briefed on nor understand the politics of the Pilot group that lead to the lawsuit, or ridiculous 'black helicopters are overhead' theories about ALPA. When push came to shove, ALPA helped deliver when we all needed them to.

Finally, I am back up to the Behncke level for the ALPA PAC based on their performance getting the funding for the CARES Act. ALPA isn't perfect, but they have been doing mostly the right things in the worst event in aviation history.
This is the second time you’ve told me to shut up. If that’s your dismissive attitude, I couldn’t care less what you think. The airlines agreed to these terms not to save labor, but because they bet on a potential quick recovery from Covid. Go post EFA numbers for a true cost of a furlough for multiple fleets, and what the duration is for break even for that furlough. I don’t buy for a second all these leaves came because of the goodness of the hearts of these major airlines. It’s all about cost, and these leave and partial pay lines were cheaper. Now you’ll refute this, go pro ALPA, and tell me to STHU, I really don’t care. :)
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I gotta say I was impressed with @SlumTodd_Millionaire’s “clapback”

Dropped some knowledge on CC, HARD, who again displayed his “heavy on opinion, light-to-nil amount of actual knowledge“ yet again.
My bad for thinking it was Franklin R. But as for that AirTran merger fiasco “clapback,” the point was him calling another pilot scum while he himself resigned or removed from a union position, and defending people that shouldn’t have been employed anymore at the airlines for their transgressions. I do appreciate the full story (and giving full benefit of doubt to him by accepting his version of events), but do take exception to the scum comment, which was largely about the union having to defend someone like me. Rest assured, in my 15th yr at the airlines the union hasn’t had to spend one penny on me in representation.
 
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