Feasible or Realistic Plan?

H

hepcat13

New Member
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After reading a lot about flying careers, hearing stories of others, and reluctantly giving up on the military flying route because of age, I came up with a plan to fly for a major, cargo, or international airline in six years. I just wanted to know, form the experts, if my plan was feasible or realistic. Here it is:

-I am currently 28 (turning 29 in June 2006), and I'm prior enlisted in the military and currently working for the US Air Force in civil service and have a B.S. in Business from NYU with a very high GPA and Zero filght hours.
-I plan on starting flight training with Edwards AFB Aero Club in May and within a year earn at least my commercial, single engine, instrument rating by May of 2007.
-Beginning in Summer of 2007, I will attend the Advanced Airline Training Program at Flight Safety Academy in Vero Beach, FL. There I get multi-engine rating, line operations experience, advanced simulator training in level "D" ERJ-145 Full flight sim (EFIS-FMS equipped), in a mock Part 121 training environment with required performance at ATP level. While enrolled in that program (and after passing the interview), students receive a conditional offer of employment for a FO position in a regional airline, because of agreements in place with their partners (ASA, TSA, ExpressJet, or American Eagle). Hopefully I get Expressjet, but anything will do.
-After almost a year of training at Flight Safety, I will begin work at the regional. Then after about two or three years of building hours and experience on low pay I plan on applying to a major, cargo, or international airline such as Cathay Pacific or Emirates as a FO or SO (Which, I was told by a 777 pilot for Emirates, is hiring a ton of pilots at the moment, and I love Dubai).
-I will relocate anywhere to get a job. I also love the life of travelling everyday, living out of hotels, and also actually prefer being domiciled outside of the US (which, from my Air Force experince, is nothing new).
-So I will be 34-35 by the time I'm at a major and will have 25 years left for my Pilot career.

Does this sound do-able? Or am I insane. Also is this realistic, or is there a better way? Please let me know before I undertake this long journey. Thanks in advance.[/FONT]
 
Your going to be paying alot of money for that "specialized" worthless training. Im not sure how much VA pays these days. 4 years from 0-Majors is pretty darn hard to do unless your last name is Continental or something. You're considered lucky if you upgrade in under 3 years into a seat where you can log PIC in a multi engine/crew environemnt. From there you need 1000 PIC at least just to start meeting mins. This will take probably 1.5-2years alone. Youll need about 3000-5000 PIC to start being competitive in todays environment but who knows what itll be like down the road when you get to that point. Do yourself a favor and explore the homepage of this website, not just the forums. After that then do some searces on these high priced schools.
 
You have a degree already, that's a big plus.

Don't know why you want to do direct track. Just stay at the aero club, get all your ratings, and instruct there. You can build up your time and experience as a CFI and move on.

Personally, I don't like direct track. Read the FSA forums. In a nutshell, 250 hour pilots shouldn't be in the right seat of an RJ. An 121 airline jet job shouldn't be one's first employment as a pilot. With direct track you limit yourself to one airline. What happens when said airline isn't hiring? See badco at the FSA forums.

"Also is this realistic, or is there a better way"

I think competition for large jet jobs overseas would still be pretty intense. See typhoonpilot's posts as he's the expert. I have a friend who I helped get hired at UPS. He was a Mesa checkairman on the RJ. Got turned down by CX but hired at UPS. Point being, I think it will take you longer than 2 or 3 years at a regional to move up the ladder. You might not even get to the left seat in 2 or 3 years. Adjust your "regional time building", which I really hate to call it as it deserves more respect than that, to at least 5 years, maybe more. Maybe you get no farther than that. If you can't handle that, then you shouldn't play. At the same time, I think Fracs and Corporate are a better option than regionals and your 2 or 3 years at the regionals should qualify you.

Anyhow, my advice would be to bag direct track, stick with the aero club and build your time and experience as a CFI. Get to a 1000 total and see what options you have and go from there.

By the way, thanks for your service to our great country. At another forum, just today, I am told I'm spreading hate because I disagree with Pay for Job programs. Questions like yours allow us to spread the word without "spreading hate".
 
Here's one post from another thread.

[Yes, definitely be very careful with financials if you are planning on entering flight training and this career. I recently graduated out of CAPT and I'm about $100K in the hole. I'm at a point where the first year FO pay will not cover my monthly bare minimum expenses with no disposable income. Hence, my flight training has left me at a dead end. I was a career changer, and now I'm going back to what I was doing before so that I can pay off this loan. My certifications all amount to a glorified Private certificate. Imagine that...$100K to exercise your PVT privileges. And to add insult to injury, I won't be flying this year or maybe next year because after training, I'm broke.

If you're going into this field, absolutely do your homework. Ask the questions you know you want to ask but are afraid to. The questions you don't ask could land you in my position...high debt and no flying job.]


That program isn't 100% good for a job with one of those airlines. This post was about a different, but similar program. If you didn't use your GI Bill for that degree then yes, a large chunk of the cost will be reimbursed.
That ERJ type rating will get you NO WHERE. Up until I joined these forums I didn't know that either. You could find yourself eye deep in debt and WAY behind the employment curve. Be wary of any and all programs that charge massive sums of money and don't include flight instructor certificates.

Also, if you somehow did get on with on of those airlines through the program, chances are you'll find out that you won't want anyone to know how you got to said airline. I'm sure Flight Safety is a great place to train, but I wouldn't buy into any of that ERJ crap. Gotta get your CFI... and so on.

I'd equate it to getting to forego Basic Training as long as you paid enough money to go to an accelerated Boy Scout Camp when you were 13 yrs. old that cost a $hi! load of money.

P.S. Do everything KingAirer said:)
 
"That ERJ type rating will get you NO WHERE"

Maybe you're thinking of CAPT and the MD90 type. CAPT, however, is in the process of shutting down. Maybe you're thinking of RAA, which includes an RJ type rating. Anyhow, FSA direct track doesn't include a type rating.
 
hepcat13 said:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There I get multi-engine rating, line operations experience, advanced simulator training in level "D" ERJ-145 Full flight sim (EFIS-FMS equipped), in a mock Part 121 training environment with required performance at ATP level. While enrolled [/FONT]
Click to expand...

I was just assuming a type from the quote.
 
Sounds very feasible to me, work hard and you will get there....I was just in Vero Beach today for a short stop over. That Flightsafety fleet is very nice! Man, they have the best little restraunt at the airport there in KVRB!
 
I took two years to the week from zero time to landing a very comfortable, well paying job as a pilot. Those years included 7 months of being a full-time flight student and 17 months of working as a flight instructor for about $25 grand per year (no bennies).

Not only did I make a deliberate decision not to take an airline gig, I was also VERY lucky. Betting the farm on making it to a major in 4 or 5 years is a huge gamble. Even if you get there, your life won't be rays of sunshine and angels singing - I hope you've looked into the *actual* state of the industry. There are thousands of regional captains and F/Os who are patiently waiting for the majors to start hiring and many of them are 5, 7, or 10 years ahead of you. Could you be working comfortably for a regional company in 5 years? Probably. But don't think that a 'direct track' program is going to give you a huge boost.

This career path has its risks, its sacrifices, and its rewards. First and foremost, you must understand that there are no promises and that anyone trying to sell you one is after your money, and only your money. If you want to make it, you must love to fly, work hard, be patient, leave all bridges intact, and keep an open mind. Above all, don't view the time between now and when you land your 'real pilot job' as a stepping stone or time building. Instead, recognize that it's the most intense period of learning that you'll go through and that the pilot you become will be dictated by the pilot you allow yourself to be during the first 1000 hours. Relish the journey, live in the moment, and maximize the lessons that every flight holds for you; never think you're above giving 100% because you're 'better' than flying with a student or for a regional.

Good luck!
 
I think you planning way to short a stop at the regionals....if you get Eagle itll ben at least 6 years before you log PIC time, ASA may or may not be around depending on what happens with them and skywest. I have no idea who TSA is and COEX is probalby looking at 4 or so before your a line holding capt. That may move to equal eagles time if they lose some planes later this year.

I don't mean to discourage just inform. If I was you I would follow DE727's advice. I love flying its all I've ever done/wanted to do however nothing kills the joy of flight faster than realizing that you won't be able to survive after trying to repay loans.

If you can keep your job fly with the aero club and instruct their part time while still working and come out with no debt you will enjoy flying a whole hell of a lot more. Even if it takes you an extra 6 months or year to get to a regional that still leaves you 20+ years of professional flying.

I've been a professional pilot for 3 years now and have had five different paid flying jobs and since I got my first CFI gig I grew more and more distainful of aviation until just last week.

I got to the hanger friday morning and saw my check in my box and threw it in my bag. Hopped in the plane and was crusin west at about 4500ft sippin a cup of airport coffee with the sun risin up so the sky was orange and the air was cool. Reached over opened up the check and realized it was the first one I've had that had a comma in it. I realized that I'd actually have some money left over at the end of the month this time. It was the first time in a long time where I actually felt good about everything that was goin on in my life.

Money can't buy happiness but it can sure buy piece of mind and thats sayin allot and the less you can owe comin into this business the more likely you are to enjoy the job and stay with it. I think I read somewhere that 45% of people getting into professional aviation are leaving for other careers I guaruntee you money was a factor for every one of them.
 
Thanks for the dose of reality. I came up with this plan thinking I was based in reality because of all the stories I've read about and personal experiences pilots I know relayed to me about reaching the majors in shorter periods of time. But all of the stories must have either been bogus or the people were extremely lucky. So now I'm thinking, to make the majors (if ever), it would take more like 10-12 years, most likely more.

On a side note, all the training I will receive past PPL, because of my service to our country, will be paid by the VA Gi Bill (including Flight Safety). Also I paid for my undergrad education with a combination of active duty tuition assistance and student loans, which I have already paid off. So none of the training costs will come out of pocket. If this is the case, is it still not worth it?

Also, I wanted people to know I have dreamed of being a pilot ever since childhood, so pay and prestige is not what I'm after (but it would be nice of course). So if I ended up working at a reqional for the rest of my career, I would still be ecstatic, as long as I am a proffessional pilot.

In regards to what I would do if the regionals were not hiring, and I had to wait around for a class date, I have an open job offer at Patrick AFB in Cocoa Beach, FL near Flight Safety in my current career field that pays well that I could take while waiting.

Also, because of my edcuation in Business and Finance, I have studied quite a bit on the state of the Airline industry, and I understand very well that it is not in good shape (domestically anyways). But it doesn't scare me, because if I ever lost my job in the airline I would always have my B.S. to fall back on and also, although not preferable, I could transfer to the "Dark Side" of the industry with my degree.

On the issue of training, I would love to train at the Aero Club because it is near my home and there are good Air Force people there but a problem exists because of the limited number of planes and instructors. To get all the neccessary ratings it would take a very long time, perhaps even long breaks in between ratings. Also the GI Bill won't give me as much money to train at the Aero Club as opposed to Flight Safety (where I would receive money for housing and living expenses also because it is a full time institution).

Anyways, thank you very much for the constructive criticism, and please keep it coming. So far, after hearing your comments, I am thinking Flight Saftey may not be the right path. Also I may have to give up on the idea of retiring after a long career in the airlines because it looks like it will take a very long time (if ever) for me to get a job with any sort of pension plan. Maybe I should just do this as a hobby or plan on working for the regionals in the far future after many years as a CFI. Any more comments would be appreciated.
 
Bwade210 said to me:

"My question to you is do you think you are better than everyone at schools like GIA, or have you simply not reached the point in your life where "having fun with people" (i.e. making fun) is getting old? The time has come for you to graduate high school and mature!And also.......you really should have resisted this urge because right now you look like a complete ass"

Then he said to you:

"Sounds very feasible to me, work hard and you will get there...."

It takes more than just hard work, it takes hard work, focused, and applied, in the right direction. Hard work focused in the wrong direction means nothing.

Guys at Gulfstream work their butts off. Lot's of hard work. But they are still the scum of the earth for playing the game they play. Don't buy into it.

Direct track isn't as bad as Gulfstream but I still think there are better options. You'll still have to decide for yourself.
 
'Also the GI Bill won't give me as much money to train at the Aero Club as opposed to Flight Safety (where I would receive money for housing and living expenses also because it is a full time institution)'

Well...there ya go. This is one of those rare situations where FSA is a good call. I'd still recommend you do the program where you get your CFI ratings rather than direct track. FSA has a program where, if you do the CFI thing, you can do an internship (I hope that's put the right way) with their corporate airline training biz. Great way to network and get your foot in the door in corporate at fairly low time.
 
hepcat13 said:
...On a side note, all the training I will receive past PPL, because of my service to our country, will be paid by the VA Gi Bill (including Flight Safety)...

...Also the GI Bill won't give me as much money to train at the Aero Club as opposed to Flight Safety (where I would receive money for housing and living expenses also because it is a full time institution)...
Click to expand...
First off, welcome to the board. You will find lots of good info here.

About your statement above, are you sure about that? Last I heard (because I've used it ;) ), VA pays 60% of pt. 141 flight training. Sizable chunk to be sure, and I'm grateful for it, but it isn't 100%. Also, I've never heard of the VA covering housing and living expenses. If you're privy to more up to date info or on any kind of special arrangement the VA has with Flight Safety, please share because I picked the wrong flight school if I could have gotten a free ride including room and board using the GI Bill at FSA.:)
 
VA Benefits

GatorFC,
Yeah, I get a few extra benefits because of my status as a Air Force Civil Service employee and also because I am in the USAF Reserves in a critically manned career field. From the federal job I get a "top up" to my gi bill from a program they have that increases my benefits to 100% and also from the reserves I get a "Kicker" to my Gi Bill that ups my monthly payouts becasue my job is in need. So I get a lot more than a traditional GI Bill recipient. The "Top Up" program depends on what the VA approved school states is the total cost of the program, including housing and living expenses if it will be in the school's dorm. Also the program has to be full time. It's a great deal. It's starting to pay to serve your country these days.
 
My advice, for what it's worth, is more in line with DE727's. Get all your rating at the Aero Club up to and including CFI, CFII, and MEI and then go to work for PW Murphy at Beijing Pan Am International Flight Academy. See his thread in the Jobs section. They way it looks there you could get into the position to be logging PIC in a King Air within two years. Living and working in China would be a blast and you might just be able to hook into a Chinese Airline after a few years. Opportunity comes to those who are brave and adventurous, not to those who foolishly pay all their money to some pilot mill with empty promises. Don't follow the lemmings, blaze your own path.


Typhoonpilot
 
hepcat13 said:
GatorFC,
Yeah, I get a few extra benefits because of my status as a Air Force Civil Service employee and also because I am in the USAF Reserves in a critically manned career field. From the federal job I get a "top up" to my gi bill from a program they have that increases my benefits to 100% and also from the reserves I get a "Kicker" to my Gi Bill that ups my monthly payouts becasue my job is in need. So I get a lot more than a traditional GI Bill recipient. The "Top Up" program depends on what the VA approved school states is the total cost of the program, including housing and living expenses if it will be in the school's dorm. Also the program has to be full time. It's a great deal. It's starting to pay to serve your country these days.
Click to expand...
Wow, hepcat, that's a really good deal. If Uncle Sam is gonna be footing the bill, training at FSA would be hard to pass up.
 
I'm preaching to the choir here (and I sound like a broken record), but minimize your debt.

Since the GI bill will cover your training, go to FSA, bang out those ratings, instruct for a while, then take it from there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top