Failing a stage check (141) and failing a checkride (61) the same thing?

C

calebflyer40

New Member
Hey guys,

I've always been curious as to whether or not failing a stage check in a 141 *self-examining* environment is akin to failing a checkride in a part 61 environment (as far as being reported as a matter of record with the FAA and how potential employers may view it).

I've heard that if you fail a "stage check" that it's the same as failing a checkride. I've also heard that it's not the same, and the FAA doesn't view it the same and neither do potential employers. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks
 
In the FAA's eye's there is only one checkride for each rating. I doubt they would care or even know about failing a stage check. Your school may have a different view of the stage checks, but I don't see how the FAA would know or care.
 
I know at a certain colligiate aviation program that may or may not be associated with the university I attend, a lot of "check instructors" have "hard-ons" for failing basically everyone on stage checks. I know maybe two or three people who didn't fail their instrument stage check the first time. Lots of "holier-than-thou" attitudes.
 
In the FAA's eye's there is only one checkride for each rating. I doubt they would care or even know about failing a stage check. Your school may have a different view of the stage checks, but I don't see how the FAA would know or care.
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Jep,

Interesting point. My understanding is that a self examining school keeps their accredidation based on pass rate, so if someone isn't passing I have to believe that the FAA knows about it - don't know that for sure though.


... A lot of "check instructors" have "hard-ons" for failing basically everyone on stage checks. I know maybe two or three people who didn't fail their instrument stage check the first time. Lots of "holier-than-thou" attitudes.
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:yeahthat:(especially the holier-than-thou part) this is exactly why I'm asking the question that I am; I was wondering if that attitude prevailed at other 141 environments, apparently so. I'm going to work as hard as I can to prep for my ride, but any check instructor can find a reason to fail someone if they want to. I just don't want to get all wound up about it in the event I get someone who's predisposed to fail me, or wants absolute perfection. If it's not a big deal to the FAA or to future employers that I busted one "stage check" then I'm not going to sweat it. I'll just do the best that I can. I wish I didn't even have to worry about this...the DE that did my Private was a super guy -- held to the book, but was very fair and let me know up front that he wasn't "out to get me". Wish it was always like that.
 
calebflyer40 said:
Jep,

Interesting point. My understanding is that a self examining school keeps their accredidation based on pass rate, so if someone isn't passing I have to believe that the FAA knows about it - don't know that for sure though.

.......
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I have done my training to this point at a 141 school. Look at it this way....

If you pass a stage check, do you get your pilots sertificate? No.

You get that once you pass your checkride. That is what the FAA would be concerned with. That is also the question you would encounter in an interview, "Have you failed any checkrides?".

The pass rate is again the 'pass rate' on check rides.
 
JEP said:
I have done my training to this point at a 141 school. Look at it this way....

If you pass a stage check, do you get your pilots certificate? No.

You get that once you pass your checkride. That is what the FAA would be concerned with. That is also the question you would encounter in an interview, "Have you failed any checkrides?".

The pass rate is again the 'pass rate' on check rides.
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I go to FlightSafety, and passing your stage check for a rating (Private, Instrument, Multi-engine, CFI, etc.) means you DO get a certificate, our admin office issues the temporary right there at the campus...there isn't any "checkride" that we have to do in addition to a stage check. Pass the stage check, get your cert. Don't pass...you do remedial and try again. So I can see why Caleb is asking the question.
 
psalm91 said:
I go to FlightSafety, and passing your stage check for a rating (Private, Instrument, Multi-engine, CFI, etc.) means you DO get a certificate, our admin office issues the temporary right there at the campus...there isn't any "checkride" that we have to do in addition to a stage check. Pass the stage check, get your cert. Don't pass...you do remedial and try again. So I can see why Caleb is asking the question.
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We may be mixing words, but I am assuming you have more than 1 stage check for each cert (hence the term STAGE)? Are you saying after yoru 1st stage check you get your cert? I am guessing you mena the final stage check which is a check ride....?

I know each 141 is different, but when I passed my stage checks I did not get a cert. I received that when I passed my check ride.
 
JEP said:
We may be mixing words, but I am assuming you have more than 1 stage check for each cert (hence the term STAGE)? Are you saying after yoru 1st stage check you get your cert? I am guessing you mena the final stage check which is a check ride....?

I know each 141 is different, but when I passed my stage checks I did not get a cert. I received that when I passed my check ride.
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The only steps that we have non-cert stage checks in are step 2 (time build towards commercial) and step 4a (basic instrument). All the others (Private, Multi, Commercial, CFI, II, MEI) result in certificate if the final "stage check" is passed; everyone here refers to them as checkrides, but technically (per FAR 141) they are still "Stage Checks". To Caleb's post, I have heard of people getting "pink slipped" upon failure of a final stage check (like you would if you busted a part 61 ride), but some say that's not true, it's just remedial and there isn't a "pink slip"...as if they were saying that it doesn't carry the same "penalty" as busting a 61 ride. I have no idea...but I can check around.
 
141 in and of itself does not mean "examining authority".

A 141 school must have been in operation at least 2 years and have established a 90% pass rate and then apply for "examining authority".

When they have examining authority, the final "End-of-Course" check for that course is a "checkride". If it is a bust, it is the same as busting any previous "stage check". Stage checks are done at stages in the course. The FAA is not notified specifically of this bust, but the student records are always open to inspection, and the FAA will inspect records. If the pass rate falls below 90%, the "Examining Authority" will be taken.

Since the Check Instructors want to keep examining authority, they will be harder on you than a regulat part 61 checkride.

Maybe. That depends on your local FSDFO and their politics.

FWIW, unless you have a long string of busts, nobody holds it against you for a couple. We all know anybody can bust a checkride. Or stagecheck.
 
Is there any way to look at ones "profile" or record on faa.gov that shows what checkrides have failed and passed etc???
 
nkoenig said:
Is there any way to look at ones "profile" or record on faa.gov that shows what checkrides have failed and passed etc???
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Checkrides, yes, sort of... You can "order a copy of your airmen certification records". That will have pass/fail things as viewed on the back of your 8710.

As for stage checks, I doubt it. Everywhere I've gone, stage checks are handled in-house, meaning that they keep RECORD of your pass/fail, but it is only shown to the FAA upon request - and NEVER potential employers.

That might be a way of trying to define "Stage Check" verses "Checkride"... perhaps if someone fills out an 8710 prior to the ride which will be sent to the FAA along with the other stuff, it must have been a Checkride. If not, then Stage Check.

I don't know that would be a "catch all" or not, but it may help in many cases!
 
Stage checks and FAA check rides are two different things.

I've bombed probably two or stage checks at Riddle, but I only failed one checkride.

One was for "inordinate amount of time preparing a VFR flight plan" -- whatever the hell the value for 'inordinate' is supposed to be. The other was for "failure to bring required materials" -- mea culpa!

My actual FAA checkride failure was during the multi-engine instrument checkride.

So in the eyes of the FAA, it's a single failure. Stage checks are between you and your training institution.
 
I'm going to be taking my CFI ride here pretty soon at FSI. They have us fill out 8710's prior to taking the ride. So even though we do that, and FSI classifies it as a "Final Stage Check" that is something that's between us and the school?

I take it in the event something goes awry (i.e. I bust) that I should tell my potential employer "I failed a stage check..." if they ask "Have you ever failed a checkride?"
 
If you failed the final stage check, would they sight you up for "XT" (Extra Training) or issue a "pink slip"?
 
Actually I have heard instances of BOTH happening; I can't imagine it's up to the discreation of the checkairman/school, as opposed to being a matter of protocol. I'll verify this with my instructor, since he's a checkairman....this has me curious now lol. I'll post what I find out -- I'll be talking to him in the next hour.
 
OK...the word from my instructor (who is a checkairman) is that busting a Stage Check is NOT the same as busting a checkride. There is no "pink slip" issued if a stage check is busted. Remedial training is assigned, and you re-take the ride.
 
Doug Taylor said:
If you failed the final stage check, would they sight you up for "XT" (Extra Training) or issue a "pink slip"?
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I have done part 61 and 141 training. I failed my private checkride (61) and got a pink slip. This is the "Notice of Disapproval". I later passed and got the temporary certificate. Under 141 you do not get a pink slip. You must receive training on the maneuver you busted and then take another checkride. You are only required to perform the maneuver you busted. If you repeatedly fail stage checks (including final stage checks), you will lose 141 status and will have to take the checkride part 61. I am not sure how many failed checks it takes to lose 141 status. The benefit of 141 is that you have no record of a busted checkride as far as FAA is concerned. Employers will look to see if/ how many pink slips you have.
 
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