FAA Recommends Committed-to-stop Point for Landings

[RDoug]

FAA Recommends Committed-to-stop Point for Landings
"This recommendation stems from a July 2008 fatal accident in which a Hawker 800A crashed while attempting a go-around more than 17 seconds after touchdown on 5,500-foot Runway 30 at Minnesota’s Owatonna Degner Regional Airport."

 

[Cptnchia]

Interesting. I thought most already have that. We do at SJI.

 

[jtrain609]

Airlines have been doing this for at least a decade, probably many decades.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I brief this (to myself) in an airplane that I can stop in a little more than 1000ft. I thought this was standard?

 

[Soku39]

Standard at my airline and C-130 USAF ops. Maybe there is something we don't know?

 

[Zidac]

I have seen the animation and CVR of that East Coast Jets 81 accident on Youtube. Pretty horrific.

 

[Inverted25]

What is the standard at the places you work?

 

[Nickk24]

I would think this is common procedure

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Yeah, what do you guys mean you had this at your 121 airline?

Are you using the "once reverse thrust is deployed, you are committed to land, do not go around" ????


We all have that. Because thats not what this is.


At my airline we just got updated procedures including figuring a latest touchdown point (LTP). It involves taking landing distance required, subtract from landing distance available, and then add 1,000 feet. And take that number and work backwards from runway end and figure out your latest touchdown point. And as PM, he/she has to call out when they are approaching LTP in order to get ready for a go around.

 

[bLizZuE]

That seems complicated. Land in the TDZ... or go around.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That seems complicated. Land in the TDZ... or go around.

Well yes, company policy is touchdown on first 3000 feet, 1/3 runway, or above mentioned LTP, whichever is less. If landing distance critical, touchdown at 500 -1000 ft threshold.


The problem with with the ECJ crash wasn't when they touched down, it was the decision to abort the landing and takeoff again. He says "flaps" and "f word". Flaps went to 0 as they powered up for takeoff. Fate sealed. They were already slow enough that going off the runway at that speed would have resulted in very minimal damage, and certainly no loss of life.

The decision making process through the descent, arrival, and approach also makes for some head scratching on this one.

 

[Inverted25]

Yeah, what do you guys mean you had this at your 121 airline?

Are you using the "once reverse thrust is deployed, you are committed to land, do not go around" ????


We all have that. Because thats not what this is.


At my airline we just got updated procedures including figuring a latest touchdown point (LTP). It involves taking landing distance required, subtract from landing distance available, and then add 1,000 feet. And take that number and work backwards from runway end and figure out your latest touchdown point. And as PM, he/she has to call out when they are approaching LTP in order to get ready for a go around.

Can you expand on this? I am not quite sure what you mean. Say for instance you have 9000 LDA and you need 6000 for your airplane. So you take the 9000-6000=3000+1000=4000. What do you then do with that 4000 number?

 

[web500sjc]

Sounds more like you need 6000ft to land. Add a 1000ft buffer. So 7000ft. On a 9000ft runway, you need to be down with 7000ft to go, or within 2000ft of the threshold.

 

[Inverted25]

Sounds more like you need 6000ft to land. Add a 1000ft buffer. So 7000ft. On a 9000ft runway, you need to be down with 7000ft to go, or within 2000ft of the threshold.

That's what I am assuming as well

 

[wheelsup]

If you're already on the ground that 6000' required is really like 3000'.

 

[Richman]

Geeeze....I've committed to landing right side up with the gear extended, and now they want this too?

Pfftttt.

 

[Roger Roger]

Geeeze....I've committed to landing right side up with the gear extended, and now they want this too?

Pfftttt.

#justmaddogthings

 

[Boris Badenov]

It only took them nine years to come up with this.