FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan Air

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The US FAA is proposing a civil penalty of $1,892,000 against Pinnacle Airlines subsidiary Colgan Air, for allegedly allowing 84 newly hired flight attendants to work on 172 flights aboard a Bombardier Dash 8-Q400, between Nov. 3-9, 2009, when they were not properly trained to use the aircraft’s cabin fire extinguisher system.
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Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Love it, they've already proved once with 50 fatalities that their training department is a joke, and now this. I'm sure that 1.9 mil will teach them...
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

With the unsatisfactory training record at this same airline, with this same aircraft, that lead to the 3407 crash you would think someone would have gone over Colgan's Q400 training with a fine tooth comb by now.

Joe
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Be very careful about giving the impression that you're dancing on any operations figurative grave.

No matter what the case, there are companies that have and companies that unfortunately sooner or later will.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

jhugz said:
Love it, they've already proved once with 50 fatalities that their training department is a joke, and now this. I'm sure that 1.9 mil will teach them...
Click to expand...

How do you know this wasn't a case of then doing the training but maybe using fire extinguishers with different pins. Without the facts we have no clue if it was a paper work thing or a training thing because as we know the media is always 100% correct.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Well, one thing for sure, FAA old motto is at its best.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

jhugz said:
Love it, they've already proved once with 50 fatalities that their training department is a joke, and now this. I'm sure that 1.9 mil will teach them...
Click to expand...

Really? I've no dog in this race but seems to me we're talking about technicalities here. It's a fire extinguisher hose(see quote below) we're talking about not stall recovery.



from article
was using the same type extinguisher for both the Saab 340B and Q400 training, although the Q400 extinguisher has a hose. Upon notification and out of an abundance of caution, Colgan updated our training manuals and retrained all flight attendants to ensure full flight attendant understanding.”
Click to expand...
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

That does seem mighty stiff for a difference training issue over a hose. The FAA would be happiest if there were no airlines at all it seems. That way they could Thursdays and Fridays off.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Hehe, what you are all forgetting is the fine will get bargained down, that's why the FAA has taken to jumping these fines huge. On top of that, once the fine is negotiated down to 800k they'll be able to use 400k of that fine to fix their problem. So $100 dollars will go to new extinguishers, $399,900 will go to bonus to the CEO who signed the purchase order.

The FAA is toothless, the world turns on.
 
jhugz said:
Love it, they've already proved once with 50 fatalities that their training department is a joke, and now this. I'm sure that 1.9 mil will teach them...
Click to expand...

Right, because you really know anything about what's going on. By your standards, American, delta, southwest, ups, and, well, most any other airline must be a joke.

They used a fire ext. In training from one of the Saab's, the q ext. Has an 8 inch hose on it. The operation is the same, except that you sweep the hose on one.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

FAA..."Let's worry about those safety improvements like rest rules later, we can make a few bucks on this".

What is the difference between a fire extinguisher with a little hose and one without? If I had to argue that fine in court I would use a blind, deaf, stupid person to demonstrate the use of both without any training. What next?...a fine for being trained on an extinguisher of a different shade of red?

This is simply the result of the FAA's post crash witch hunt. If that is the worst they were able to find then we should all be suprised.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Remember, Aim Squeeze and Sweep... it's the "ASS" mnemonic device. Can't get in trouble for saying ass in here.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

There is more to this than just fire extinquishers. Read between the lines. I believe this lies between politics and PR issues within the airline.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

There IS more to this then extinguishers! It's business as usual for our awesome government. They do more magic then Criss Angel! They do a whole lot of nothing while maintaining an illusion of doing something to keep us dumb and happy so they can keep their cushy jobs or their fat salaries or their seat in the House or Senate!
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Hey now, I did not feel at all qualified to use a fire extinguishers on the Q until after I was trained using the EXACT same extinguisher, but with a hose. It's a wonder thousands of people didn't die in the interim. I would like to send the FAA a bill for the gas and tolls for making me have to drive all the way to EWR to play with a fire extinguisher a 2 year old can use because my prior training wasn't sufficient to them. It's a good thing profanity isn't allowed or this thread would be full of it.

Oh and James, shut up when you have no clue what you're talking about.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Well, good to know the FAA is like this everywhere. Real Problems? No thanks, we have fire extinguishers to examine!
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Colgan sounds freakishly familiar to colon....
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

The FAA is an Aim, Squeeze and Sweep.
 
Re: FAA proposes $1.9 million civil penalty against Colgan A

Well, they've been on a 'tear' since they got accused of favoritism towards certain airlines a few years ago. And, in some cases, those allegations were factual. So the new tact is somewhat zero tolerance.

Has anyone seen the "Threat and Error Matrix" that's applied to airmen when they have a deviation?
 
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