FAA Proposal for ATP/1500 Rule

Shiek Yiboudi

Shiek Yiboudi

Divides by zero
Fresh out kids:

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/2120-AJ67NPRM.pdf


Cliff Notes:

Unrestricted ATP: 23 yrs old, + 1,500TT, + ATP Certification Program, + 50hrs in class A/C. (must also meet all requirements in current regulations for ATP)

"Frozen ATPL": 21 yrs old, + 1,500TT, OR 750TT (Military), OR 1,000TT (University Aviation Degree Program), + ATP Certification Program.

SIC Part 121: Must hold ATP + Type Rating OR "Frozen ATPL" + Type Rating.

PIC Part 121: Must hold ATP + Type Rating + 1,000 hrs Air Carrier Ops (SIC)

ATP Certification Program to include:

-Function in a multipilot environment
-Function in adverse weather conditions (icing)
-Function during high altitude operations
-To adhere to the highest professional standards
-Function in an air carrier operational environment.
-The total flight hours should include sufficient flight hours in difficult operational conditions.
 
The frozen ATPL will make a number of people happy, most importantly ATP, ERAU and all other University Aviation Degree Programs. I wonder how much that and the <500 hours cost them?

I also wonder how long it will take for these places to offer an expidited degree for people who went 61 and want the <500 time reduction.
 
Shiek Yiboudi said:
Fresh out kids:

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/2120-AJ67NPRM.pdf


Cliff Notes:

Unrestricted ATP: 23 yrs old, + 1,500TT, + ATP Certification Program, + 50hrs in class A/C. (must also meet all requirements in current regulations for ATP)

"Frozen ATPL": 21 yrs old, + 1,500TT, OR 750TT (Military), OR 1,000TT (University Aviation Degree Program), + ATP Certification Program.

SIC Part 121: Must hold ATP + Type Rating OR "Frozen ATPL" + Type Rating.

PIC Part 121: Must hold ATP + Type Rating + 1,000 hrs Air Carrier Ops (SIC)

ATP Certification Program to include:

-Function in a multipilot environment
-Function in adverse weather conditions (icing)
-Function during high altitude operations
-To adhere to the highest professional standards
-Function in an air carrier operational environment.
-The total flight hours should include sufficient flight hours in difficult operational conditions.
Click to expand...

What constitutes "Air Carrier Ops," because that could mean my ATP is essentially useless if I need to have 1000hrs in the right seat at a 121 company prior.
 
ppragman said:
What constitutes "Air Carrier Ops," because that could mean my ATP is essentially useless if I need to have 1000hrs in the right seat at a 121 company prior.
Click to expand...
You would just have to sit right seat for 1000 hours before upgrading.

This is great news for us who have 1000 PIC as you can't just go start an airline and put new hires off the street into an airline cockpit (regardless of whether they are more qualified). Unfortunately, not many new airlines are starting up these days...
 
They go in to the PIC part...Page 47. The way I read it, you have to have 1000 hours (SIC OR PIC) in an op requiring an ATP to be a 121 PIC.
 
The rule explicitly defines air carrier operations: 'as an SIC in part 121 operations, a PIC in operations under either §135.243(a)(1) or §91.1053(a)(2)(i), or any combination thereof'


Cheers!
 
Boris Badenov said:
rofl. A guy with 6000 hours flying a metroliner single pilot won't qualify to be a 121 PIC, but a guy with 1001 hours yanking gear in a 1900 will? You've really outdone yourself this time, FAA.
Click to expand...

Incorrect.

FlyPurdue said:
The rule explicitly defines air carrier operations: 'as an SIC in part 121 operations, a PIC in operations under either §135.243(a)(1) or §91.1053(a)(2)(i), or any combination thereof'


Cheers!
Click to expand...

^^ This.
 
Shiek Yiboudi said:
Incorrect.



^^ This.
Click to expand...

If I'm reading this correctly though, 135.243a1 refers to "commuter" operations under 135, or operations which require an ATP. Most freight outfits don't require an ATP to drive the 1900/SA227 around. Whereas CapeAir does. Doesn't seem very logical to me.
 
Shiek Yiboudi said:
Incorrect.



^^ This.
Click to expand...


The FARs said:
Sec. 135.243 — Pilot in command qualifications.

(a) No certificate holder may use a person, nor may any person serve, as pilot in command in passenger-carrying operations—

(1) Of a turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter, unless that person holds an airline transport pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that airplane.

§ 91.1053 Crewmember experience.
<snip>
(2) For multi-engine turbine-powered fixed-wing and powered-lift aircraft, the following FAA certification and ratings requirements:
(i) Pilot in command—Airline transport pilot and applicable type ratings.
Click to expand...

The problem, I think, is that freight guys are not REQUIRED to have an ATP. Thus, whether they actually have one or not, their experience does not count because they are not governed by either of these parts.

So, actually, you're incorrect.
 
So what will places like commutair do when they need captains but the FO next in line doesn't have 1000 hours under their belt as SIC yet.
 
I believe the spirit of the law is to require 1000 hours excessing the ATP certificate, weather as a SIC, or PIC under the applicable 135, and 91 operations. Not that this has been a problem before, but to prevent a 1500 hour CPL from being a hired as a 'Direct Entry Captain.' Difference being verbiage, this rule is almost entirely in line with the ICAO's fATPL's and ATPL's, less the hour requirements - FAA's being more strict!

Cheers!
 
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