FAA OK's Sport License
- Thread starter WindyCityPilot
- Start date
gyronut
New Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
Here ya go, I broke it down a little for ya!
61.23c
(c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license. (1) A person must hold and possess either a valid medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a current and valid U.S. driver's license when exercising the privileges of—
(ii) A sport pilot certificate in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon; or
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating while acting as pilot in command or serving as a required flight crewmember of a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon.
(2) A person using a current and valid U.S. driver’s license to meet the requirements of this paragraph must--
(i) Comply with each restriction and limitation imposed by that person’s U.S. driver’s license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the operation of a motor vehicle;
(ii) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);
(iii) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn; and
(iv) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.
* * * * *
Looks like part iv is a gray area.
John
Naples Florida
Here ya go, I broke it down a little for ya!
61.23c
(c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license. (1) A person must hold and possess either a valid medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a current and valid U.S. driver's license when exercising the privileges of—
(ii) A sport pilot certificate in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon; or
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating while acting as pilot in command or serving as a required flight crewmember of a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon.
(2) A person using a current and valid U.S. driver’s license to meet the requirements of this paragraph must--
(i) Comply with each restriction and limitation imposed by that person’s U.S. driver’s license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the operation of a motor vehicle;
(ii) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);
(iii) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn; and
(iv) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.
* * * * *
Looks like part iv is a gray area.
John
Naples Florida
turbojet28
Well-Known Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
What was the "Recreational" really for? IWouldn't it be easier to just do the extra 10 hours and get the private (which then wouldn't have all the limitations)?. This one looks pretty neat and seems more like a "recreational" cert. than the real "recreational" one!
What was the "Recreational" really for? IWouldn't it be easier to just do the extra 10 hours and get the private (which then wouldn't have all the limitations)?. This one looks pretty neat and seems more like a "recreational" cert. than the real "recreational" one!
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
[ QUOTE ]
Kind of sounds like the "Recreational Pilot Rating".
[/ QUOTE ]
Recreational was just a pilot certificate.
The sport pilot rule is a pilot certificate and an aircraft certification rule set.
Meaning manufacturers should be able to sell "certified" aircraft (meeting the "sport certification standards") for much less than a normal category certification. Then a "sport" pilot can buy/fly these things with less restrictions than a recreational pilot (all that logbook endorsement junk).
Basically the way this works is the "sport pilot" certificate is like a "private" but the pilot may only fly sport certified aircraft (1,300lbs or less, 2 seats, less than 120kts cruies etc.). I think - could be wrong.
Hopefully it'll breathe a little life into the aviation arena ... but it's only going to happen when someone figures out a way to build and sell an aircraft for around $30k or $40k. Mooney has a sport aircraft on the horizon but I htink they want something like 120k for it.
[ QUOTE ]
Kind of sounds like the "Recreational Pilot Rating".
[/ QUOTE ]
Recreational was just a pilot certificate.
The sport pilot rule is a pilot certificate and an aircraft certification rule set.
Meaning manufacturers should be able to sell "certified" aircraft (meeting the "sport certification standards") for much less than a normal category certification. Then a "sport" pilot can buy/fly these things with less restrictions than a recreational pilot (all that logbook endorsement junk).
Basically the way this works is the "sport pilot" certificate is like a "private" but the pilot may only fly sport certified aircraft (1,300lbs or less, 2 seats, less than 120kts cruies etc.). I think - could be wrong.
Hopefully it'll breathe a little life into the aviation arena ... but it's only going to happen when someone figures out a way to build and sell an aircraft for around $30k or $40k. Mooney has a sport aircraft on the horizon but I htink they want something like 120k for it.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
Just what we need, even more pilots with even less training out there in our skies. Itll take one of these "balloons" flying into DC before it gets more attention. Ever notice how things in government take place about 10 years later then when they we re a good idea?
Just what we need, even more pilots with even less training out there in our skies. Itll take one of these "balloons" flying into DC before it gets more attention. Ever notice how things in government take place about 10 years later then when they we re a good idea?
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
[ QUOTE ]
Just what we need, even more pilots with even less training out there in our skies.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree 110%.
[ QUOTE ]
Just what we need, even more pilots with even less training out there in our skies.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree 110%.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
I dunno ... how much training does it really take to stay within x miles of an airport? Flying something equivalent to a cub?
Part of me thinks this is a good idea ... and part of me thinks it's a bad idea. Guess only time will tell but if we look at history, the recreational pilot certificate was a flop so chances are this sport pilot (in terms of airman certification) thing isn't going to do much better.
The "sport" aircraft certification, however, may have a bigger influence on GA; i.e. "afforable" aircraft.
We'll see ...
I dunno ... how much training does it really take to stay within x miles of an airport? Flying something equivalent to a cub?
Part of me thinks this is a good idea ... and part of me thinks it's a bad idea. Guess only time will tell but if we look at history, the recreational pilot certificate was a flop so chances are this sport pilot (in terms of airman certification) thing isn't going to do much better.
The "sport" aircraft certification, however, may have a bigger influence on GA; i.e. "afforable" aircraft.
We'll see ...
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
Theoretically it can be beneficial to aviation if people follow the rules. But when you've got a bunch of "sub-privates" bending the rules and deciding to embark on cross countries in all sorts of weather (Hey! I'll just use my handheld GPS!), it might look like a triage area on the weekends.
Theoretically it can be beneficial to aviation if people follow the rules. But when you've got a bunch of "sub-privates" bending the rules and deciding to embark on cross countries in all sorts of weather (Hey! I'll just use my handheld GPS!), it might look like a triage area on the weekends.
RiddlePilot
New Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
I'd very much like to see the experience requirements for a Sport certificate, actually. If they're anything like a Private, I'm all for this. However, if the FAA is planning on giving private-level privileges to folks with less training due to the aircraft's size and speed, I don't like the Sport idea a bit.
I'd very much like to see the experience requirements for a Sport certificate, actually. If they're anything like a Private, I'm all for this. However, if the FAA is planning on giving private-level privileges to folks with less training due to the aircraft's size and speed, I don't like the Sport idea a bit.
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
The only problem with the requirements, no matter what they are, is human nature and our tendency to bend the rules.
We've got VFR private pilots trying to fly in IMC, IFR private pilots trying to operate as commercial carriers (sightseeing/hey-i'll-drop-you-off-in-Fresno-for-$100/etc) and all sorts of other activities.
The only problem with the requirements, no matter what they are, is human nature and our tendency to bend the rules.
We've got VFR private pilots trying to fly in IMC, IFR private pilots trying to operate as commercial carriers (sightseeing/hey-i'll-drop-you-off-in-Fresno-for-$100/etc) and all sorts of other activities.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
True but we're going to run into that problem no matter the certificate held. Granted, the chances of an ATP doing something stupid are far less than that of a private but it still happens on occasion.
The upside to this particular situation is that the aircraft are under 1,300 pounds. Hell I don't think a 152 could be flown by a sport pilot. So by default unless the pilot is incredibly dumb I think the chance of seeing VFR into IMC is a little less likely. It's the guys in Bonanzas with 3 axis autopilots who are flying VFR into IMC because they think the autopilot will handle it.
I dunno like I said I'm kinda torn on this. Part of me agrees with ESF, King Airer and you, Doug, that less training = bad. That this "private-lite" certificate may, simply by its nature, help to breed "rules are optional" attitudes. But part of me sees this as an attempt at the FAA to "clear the tape" for weekend, local pilots and to bring the cost of small aircraft into a realm where average folks can afford to fly.
One of three things is going to happen: 1) this will be the bane of aviation. 2) this will be the boom/greatest thing since Kitty Hawk for aviation or 3) something inbetween.
I guess I'm pretty hyped about the aircraft certification part, the pilot certification I'm not sure about but I do think the "drivers license medical" is a step in the right direction.
I just dunno.
True but we're going to run into that problem no matter the certificate held. Granted, the chances of an ATP doing something stupid are far less than that of a private but it still happens on occasion.
The upside to this particular situation is that the aircraft are under 1,300 pounds. Hell I don't think a 152 could be flown by a sport pilot. So by default unless the pilot is incredibly dumb I think the chance of seeing VFR into IMC is a little less likely. It's the guys in Bonanzas with 3 axis autopilots who are flying VFR into IMC because they think the autopilot will handle it.
I dunno like I said I'm kinda torn on this. Part of me agrees with ESF, King Airer and you, Doug, that less training = bad. That this "private-lite" certificate may, simply by its nature, help to breed "rules are optional" attitudes. But part of me sees this as an attempt at the FAA to "clear the tape" for weekend, local pilots and to bring the cost of small aircraft into a realm where average folks can afford to fly.
One of three things is going to happen: 1) this will be the bane of aviation. 2) this will be the boom/greatest thing since Kitty Hawk for aviation or 3) something inbetween.
I guess I'm pretty hyped about the aircraft certification part, the pilot certification I'm not sure about but I do think the "drivers license medical" is a step in the right direction.
I just dunno.
RiddlePilot
New Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm pretty hyped about the aircraft certification part, the pilot certification I'm not sure about but I do think the "drivers license medical" is a step in the right direction.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I dunno about that one. Ever driven in Prescott?
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm pretty hyped about the aircraft certification part, the pilot certification I'm not sure about but I do think the "drivers license medical" is a step in the right direction.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I dunno about that one. Ever driven in Prescott?
GregCollins2
Well-Known Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
The primary difference in training between Private and Sport Pilot is only 5 hours of dual. The Sport Pilot can't fly at night which eliminates the night dual, and most proposed Light Sport Airplances are not going to be gyro equipped, so there is no requirement for 3 hours of hood work. Otherwise the training requirements are the same as for Private. There is an advantage over Rec. pilot in that Sport Pilots can fly x-country, and into any airspace below 10,000' if properly equipped. And like the Private Certificate, the training will most likely take longer than the FAA minimums to complete. I've been studying the rule all day, it's 452 pages long and pretty well thought out.
There are a bunch of fantastic airplanes that will be available for under $40,000.
The primary difference in training between Private and Sport Pilot is only 5 hours of dual. The Sport Pilot can't fly at night which eliminates the night dual, and most proposed Light Sport Airplances are not going to be gyro equipped, so there is no requirement for 3 hours of hood work. Otherwise the training requirements are the same as for Private. There is an advantage over Rec. pilot in that Sport Pilots can fly x-country, and into any airspace below 10,000' if properly equipped. And like the Private Certificate, the training will most likely take longer than the FAA minimums to complete. I've been studying the rule all day, it's 452 pages long and pretty well thought out.
There are a bunch of fantastic airplanes that will be available for under $40,000.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
Another "dumb" Rating. Like doug was saying people are going to bend this. Farmer Joe goes out in his toy to buzz the neighbors kids and check out some new fields and dusk turns to dark, Hes never flown in the dark, GREAT! The next day farmer joe goes out on a cross country and inadvertantly gets into a cloud and has never had hood trainin' before, sprial...Arent new private pilots bad enough? Seems like we should be increasing requirements with the addded imporatance of airspace knowledge these days.
Another "dumb" Rating. Like doug was saying people are going to bend this. Farmer Joe goes out in his toy to buzz the neighbors kids and check out some new fields and dusk turns to dark, Hes never flown in the dark, GREAT! The next day farmer joe goes out on a cross country and inadvertantly gets into a cloud and has never had hood trainin' before, sprial...Arent new private pilots bad enough? Seems like we should be increasing requirements with the addded imporatance of airspace knowledge these days.
flyover
New Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
I know a lot of 'Farmer Joes". My dad was a flying farmer for about 40 years. He and the others I know always knew their limitations. Didn't fly at night, low weather, or windy conditions. Their good judgement made them very safe while not being very capable. Why are you so upset with some people getting to enjoy a little aviation without jumping through hoops they don't necessarily need? I like this idea a lot. Less is more here.
I know a lot of 'Farmer Joes". My dad was a flying farmer for about 40 years. He and the others I know always knew their limitations. Didn't fly at night, low weather, or windy conditions. Their good judgement made them very safe while not being very capable. Why are you so upset with some people getting to enjoy a little aviation without jumping through hoops they don't necessarily need? I like this idea a lot. Less is more here.
GregCollins2
Well-Known Member
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
I've trained hundreds of those "Farmer Joes" as ultralight pilots according to EAA and USUA standards and none of them has ever got into trouble flying at night or spiralling out of clouds. There are already thousands of ultralights flying around safely. Sport Pilots will now have more FAA supervised training and will have to meet FAA mandated standards and testing. Ultralight aircraft and Light Sport Airplanes will now be constructed to an industry approved consesus standard. This rule will only make sport aviation safer, and it IS an increase in requirements for everyone that is currently flying under Part 103 exemptions. Similar rules have been in place for years in Europe with an excellent record of safety.
Many thousands of day VFR Cubs, Champs, Chiefs, etc. have been flown for years without gyros for instrument flight, or lights for night flight, by pilots that have never had night training or done hood work. Just because a pilot enjoys flying low performance, simple aircraft, does not mean he lacks all common sense. Especially with good instruction from knowledgeable, professional instructors.
I've trained hundreds of those "Farmer Joes" as ultralight pilots according to EAA and USUA standards and none of them has ever got into trouble flying at night or spiralling out of clouds. There are already thousands of ultralights flying around safely. Sport Pilots will now have more FAA supervised training and will have to meet FAA mandated standards and testing. Ultralight aircraft and Light Sport Airplanes will now be constructed to an industry approved consesus standard. This rule will only make sport aviation safer, and it IS an increase in requirements for everyone that is currently flying under Part 103 exemptions. Similar rules have been in place for years in Europe with an excellent record of safety.
Many thousands of day VFR Cubs, Champs, Chiefs, etc. have been flown for years without gyros for instrument flight, or lights for night flight, by pilots that have never had night training or done hood work. Just because a pilot enjoys flying low performance, simple aircraft, does not mean he lacks all common sense. Especially with good instruction from knowledgeable, professional instructors.
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
Re: FAA OK\'s Sport License
Im going to have to wait this one out to make a decision. I think the theory is good, and I would like to look at some of these new planes being designed. A lot of people are worried about the rule bending and lack of common sense. I think this comes down to the person involved and must be beaten into their heads early in the game. Problem is, some CFI's never teach good judgement, which can lead to bonehead flight decisions. The 5 hours less training isnt going to make much difference in the judgement game IMO, but, I could very well be wrong. Ill check back in a few years to see which way it has gone.
Im going to have to wait this one out to make a decision. I think the theory is good, and I would like to look at some of these new planes being designed. A lot of people are worried about the rule bending and lack of common sense. I think this comes down to the person involved and must be beaten into their heads early in the game. Problem is, some CFI's never teach good judgement, which can lead to bonehead flight decisions. The 5 hours less training isnt going to make much difference in the judgement game IMO, but, I could very well be wrong. Ill check back in a few years to see which way it has gone.