Explain this one....

bidderswede

New Member
FAR states that if u r flyin above FL180 MSL u have to be on an IFR flight plan, right?
So how come they have VFR cruising altitudes above FL180?
Anyone wanna take a shot on this one?:confused:
 

MQAAord

Scheherazade
Staff member
Just a quick note, we prefer that people write out their words here at JC :)

Instead of "u r flyin"... please just say "you are flying"

:)
 

bidderswede

New Member
How can you be VFR on top when you HAVE to be on an IFR flight plan?
You can be VMC flying IFR, but not VFR and IFR at the same time.
Still confused....:confused:
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
Random thoughts on this topic.

91.135 only applies to Class A airspace.


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraf...s/atpubs/Atc/Chp7/atc0701.html#atc0701.html.1

7-1-1. CLASS A AIRSPACE RESTRICTIONS
Do not apply visual separation or issue VFR or "VFR-on-top" clearances in Class A airspace.


I found this on a random webpage (old info).

(b) When operating above 18,000 feet MSL to flight level 290 (inclusive) and --
(1) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any odd flight level +500 feet (such as 195, 215, or 235); or
(2) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any even flight level +500 feet (such as 185, 205, or 225).

(c) When operating above flight level 290 and --
(1) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 300 (such as flight level 300, 340, or 380); or
(2) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 320 (such as flight level 320, 360, or 400).


This is the current 91.159 (faa.gov) that appears to have been amended in Oct and Dec 2003.

(b) When operating above 18,000 feet MSL, maintain the altitude or flight level assigned by ATC.


What about above FL600? :)
 

bidderswede

New Member
Random thoughts on this topic.

91.135 only applies to Class A airspace.


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraf...s/atpubs/Atc/Chp7/atc0701.html#atc0701.html.1

7-1-1. CLASS A AIRSPACE RESTRICTIONS

Do not apply visual separation or issue VFR or "VFR-on-top" clearances in Class A airspace.



I found this on a random webpage (old info).

(b) When operating above 18,000 feet MSL to flight level 290 (inclusive) and --
(1) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any odd flight level +500 feet (such as 195, 215, or 235); or
(2) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any even flight level +500 feet (such as 185, 205, or 225).

(c) When operating above flight level 290 and --
(1) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 300 (such as flight level 300, 340, or 380); or
(2) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any flight level, at 4,000-foot intervals, beginning at and including flight level 320 (such as flight level 320, 360, or 400).


This is the current 91.159 (faa.gov) that appears to have been amended in Oct and Dec 2003.

(b) When operating above 18,000 feet MSL, maintain the altitude or flight level assigned by ATC.



What about above FL600? :)

I guess you have to be assigned a VFR altitude by ATC, but then again, they are not supposed to give you VFR ON TOP in class A (18000-60000).

By the way... It is class G above FL600 so you can do whatever you want.
 

the_dmn8tr

New Member
By the way... It is class G above FL600 so you can do whatever you want.
It is actually class E above FL600.

From the Jeppesen Instrument Commercial and Private Handbooks, "The Class E airspace which begins at 14,500 MSL and at FL600 is not depicted on sectional charts."

There is also a good chart of it in the Instrument/Commercial on page 3-19. Even has a little space shuttle in the Class E.
 

splash

your social justice comic center
This is used if you are coming from outer space so you can get an IFR clearance below FL600. I use it coming in to visit all the time. You humans are something else with these hard to read rules that lawyer write.
 

bidderswede

New Member
It is actually class E above FL600.

From the Jeppesen Instrument Commercial and Private Handbooks, "The Class E airspace which begins at 14,500 MSL and at FL600 is not depicted on sectional charts."

There is also a good chart of it in the Instrument/Commercial on page 3-19. Even has a little space shuttle in the Class E.

You are right.
Just assumed it would be class G,(makes sense to me due to VERY limited amount of traffic/weather up there).
Anyway........The VFR altitudes still doesn't make sense.(why would atc assign a VFR altitude to you?)
Basically...What's the point of even having that rule? Has anyone ever been assigned one?
Sorry guys/girls it just bothers me...
 

casey

Well-Known Member
You are right.
Just assumed it would be class G,(makes sense to me due to VERY limited amount of traffic/weather up there).
Anyway........The VFR altitudes still doesn't make sense.(why would atc assign a VFR altitude to you?)
Basically...What's the point of even having that rule? Has anyone ever been assigned one?
Sorry guys/girls it just bothers me...
it is because, as the others have said, if you are flying above FL600 and feel like cancelling IFR you need to know what altitude to fly at.
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
it is because, as the others have said, if you are flying above FL600 and feel like cancelling IFR you need to know what altitude to fly at.
I took an XR up to FL655 once, you know, just to say I went up that high and canceled.

All it took was E-TO-RSV, half tanks and nobody in the back and she did it no problem!

Semak was with me, we did it on a repo flight.
 

tgrayson

New Member
Anyone wanna take a shot on this one?
Class A doesn't exist *everywhere* starting at 18,000 MSL. There are portions of Alaska that do not have Class A airspace and all of Hawaii.

However, that may not be why the regulation was written the way it was. A lawyer of my acquaintance said that a principle of statute construction is that they be independent of other statutes. In other words, the regulation concerning VFR altitudes should make no assumptions about where class A began or what the regulations were concerning the airspace. (I do not know if he is correct in what he says...it seems too reasonable.)
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Class A doesn't exist *everywhere* starting at 18,000 MSL. There are portions of Alaska that do not have Class A airspace and all of Hawaii.

However, that may not be why the regulation was written the way it was. A lawyer of my acquaintance said that a principle of statute construction is that they be independent of other statutes. In other words, the regulation concerning VFR altitudes should make no assumptions about where class A began or what the regulations were concerning the airspace. (I do not know if he is correct in what he says...it seems too reasonable.)
Spot on.

I've been at FL200 VFR on the way out to dutch on a DVFR flight plan.
 

DeltaAVL

New Member
I took an XR up to FL655 once, you know, just to say I went up that high and canceled.

All it took was E-TO-RSV, half tanks and nobody in the back and she did it no problem!

Semak was with me, we did it on a repo flight.
Haha! HA... ha.. h-

Okay, that's not funny.


;)
 
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