Expired Medical Scenario

B

BM

New Member
So I have been having an ongoing discussion with a friend concerning a scenario he heard about

He knew of someone that had accidentally flown with an expired medical certificate. This guy had thought his cert expired in Aug of last year but when he checked his cert to verify the date he realized that it had expired in July. So as I understand he had been flying a whole month with an expired medical.

We couldn't find any action for correcting the mistake other than filing an ASRS.

My two questions to the knowledgeable members here are..
1. Has anyone ever been in this situation
2. Is the ASRS the corrective course of action?
 
It is too late to file an ASRS (to get the protection). If no one found out, and nothing eventful happened on the flights in question, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
As others have said, it is "too late" to get protection from an ASRS report. The limit is ten days. However, it won't hurt a thing to file anyway. Assuming a worst case scenario, if something should come up, it shows a positive attitude on the part of the airman, which, by FAA order, is used to determine the sanction (punishment).

However, if the flying was all Part 91, nobody is going to care at this point. Conceivably, if it was Part 135 or Part 121 flying, a records review by the FAA might uncover such a thing. While there is no telling what someone else might do, my best guess is that an FAA inspector would probably go for administrative action on the pilot and a fine for the operator. An administrative action is a letter to the airman that is kept in the records for two years and then removed.

The ASRS has the nice feature of protecting airmen when they make inadvertent errors, but it is designed to make the system safer for all of us. For that reason alone, I would recommend filing a report. I'd also suggest that in that report, a recommendation be made that MEDXPRESS be modified to automatically remind airmen when their medical is nearing its expiration. After all, if the FAA is going to make the system mandatory, they should add features to it that help the airman, not just the FAA.
 
Houston said:
As others have said, it is "too late" to get protection from an ASRS report. The limit is ten days. However, it won't hurt a thing to file anyway. Assuming a worst case scenario, if something should come up, it shows a positive attitude on the part of the airman, which, by FAA order, is used to determine the sanction (punishment).

However, if the flying was all Part 91, nobody is going to care at this point. Conceivably, if it was Part 135 or Part 121 flying, a records review by the FAA might uncover such a thing. While there is no telling what someone else might do, my best guess is that an FAA inspector would probably go for administrative action on the pilot and a fine for the operator. An administrative action is a letter to the airman that is kept in the records for two years and then removed.

The ASRS has the nice feature of protecting airmen when they make inadvertent errors, but it is designed to make the system safer for all of us. For that reason alone, I would recommend filing a report. I'd also suggest that in that report, a recommendation be made that MEDXPRESS be modified to automatically remind airmen when their medical is nearing its expiration. After all, if the FAA is going to make the system mandatory, they should add features to it that help the airman, not just the FAA.
Click to expand...
Just a note. Deliberate violations are excluded from ASRS. In fact, NASA will happily hand you over to the FAA if the violation is deliberate, or concerns an aircraft incident, accident, or criminal action.
 
I would tell your friend that in this scenario, people generally dont talk about it.

1st rule of flying without a medical, dont tell anyone you flew without a medical.

2nd rule of flying without a medical...
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Just a note. Deliberate violations are excluded from ASRS. In fact, NASA will happily hand you over to the FAA if the violation is deliberate, or concerns an aircraft incident, accident, or criminal action.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct about the first part. I don't have any personal knowledge regarding the second part. However, if I understand the situation correctly, the airman in question did not deliberately violate the regulation.
 
Houston said:
You're absolutely correct about the first part. I don't have any personal knowledge regarding the second part. However, if I understand the situation correctly, the airman in question did not deliberately violate the regulation.
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I don't have any personal knowledge of it either and I'm uninterested in finding out...but it is policy.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I don't have any personal knowledge of it either and I'm uninterested in finding out...but it is policy.
Click to expand...


Not to beat this poor pony into a bloody pulp, but here is what you wrote:

NASA will happily hand you over to the FAA if the violation is deliberate, or concerns an aircraft incident, accident, or criminal action.
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I think this is the section you are referring to in the reference you linked:

· Processing Procedures. NASA procedures for processing Aviation Safety Reports initially screen the reports for:

o Information concerning criminal offenses, which will be referred promptly to the Department of Justice and the FAA;

o Information concerning accidents, which will be referred promptly to the NTSB and the FAA; and

NOTE: Reports discussing criminal activities or accidents are not de-identified prior to their referral to the agencies outlined above.
Click to expand...
o

So, as I read it they will turn you over for an accident or criminal action. However, they will not turn you over for a deliberate violation or an incident. Does that agree with your understanding of NASA's policy?
 
Houston said:
Not to beat this poor pony into a bloody pulp, but here is what you wrote:



I think this is the section you are referring to in the reference you linked:

o

So, as I read it they will turn you over for an accident or criminal action. However, they will not turn you over for a deliberate violation or an incident. Does that agree with your understanding of NASA's policy?
Click to expand...
No.

Enforcement Restrictions. The FAA considers the filing of a report with NASA concerning an incident or occurrence involving a violation of 49 U.S.C. subtitle VII or the 14 CFR to be indicative of a constructive attitude. Such an attitude will tend to prevent future violations. Accordingly, although a finding of violation may be made, neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be imposed if:
  • The violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;
Click to expand...
 
The FAA still has to be made aware of the deliberate violation via other means. NASA won't turn you over. That just means that when the FAA investigates, the safety report won't help you. The only time NASA voluntarily sends out reports are for criminal acts, and accidents.


Also, the 10 day window starts when you become aware of the violation. If you just discovered today, then today is the first day.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
No.
Click to expand...

Go back and read the referenced material again. The part that says the "violation was inadvertent and not deliberate" has to do with whether the filing of the report provides protection to the airman, not whether the NTSB would turn the individual over to another authoority. The conditions under which the NTSB would provide the information in a report to other authorities (law enforcement, not the FAA, for criminal acts and the FAA for accidents) is in a different section and listed as such.

Does that not agree with your more careful reading of the material?
 
I just filed an ASRS for something that happened a couple of days ago. It says this at the end:

Your report has been securely submitted to the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS). No identifying information will be kept in our system after our review. Your ID Strip will be printed, date stamped, and mailed back to you at the address you have provided. When this ID strip is removed, your name has been removed from our system and your report is being processed.
Click to expand...

It looks like as soon as they mail it out, they remove your identification information. I doubt they submit that to the FAA. As others have said, it looks like the FAA has to go digging through their records.
 
Had a flight instructor around here who did the same thing. Someone found out and called the FAA and he ended up having his pilot license and CFI license suspended for six months
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Just a note. Deliberate violations are excluded from ASRS. In fact, NASA will happily hand you over to the FAA if the violation is deliberate, or concerns an aircraft incident, accident, or criminal action.
Click to expand...
"Deliberate" is what the FAA attorneys use to deny you the protective effect of the ASRS report once they bring certificate action (having learned of a violation by other means) and the pilot claims ASRS waiver of the penalty.

"Deliberate" is not a decision that the NTSB makes to violate the confidentiality of the report. The only two bases I'm aware of for violating report confidentiality are an accident and evidence of a criminal act.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
"Deliberate" is what the FAA attorneys use to deny you the protective effect of the ASRS report once they bring certificate action (having learned of a violation by other means) and the pilot claims ASRS waiver of the penalty.

"Deliberate" is not a decision that the NTSB makes to violate the confidentiality of the report. The only two bases I'm aware of for violating report confidentiality are an accident and evidence of a criminal act.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's what I said, but it's nice to have it framed in different wording.

However, as I was looking at material related to this it raised a few questions I wish we had a NASA person to answer. For example, when they say they turn accidents over to the FAA, the follow on question is how do they know if something is an accident. For example I've seen gear up landings that were classified as accidents and I've seen gear up landings that were not classified as accidents. I can imagine any number of scenarios where the determination cannot be made by reading the report. I suspect the answer is that unless it is obviously an accident, and probably a fairly major one at that, the information would not be given to the FAA.
 
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